Tweet
If you want an actual string of democratic revolutions, try 1848.
-
I think the string of democratic revolutions since Poland kicked this all off has been greater than 1848.Last edited by DanS; February 28, 2005, 15:54.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
Were the neo-cons right?
Post 9/11 the neo-cons in the Bush Administration kept pushing the idea that a democratic Iraq would act as an agent of change in the largely dictatorial middle east. I'm not sure I would credit Iraq's new democracy for it but there have been recent signs of greater democracy and freedom in the Arab world. Iraq held it's first free election since the 1950's, Saudi Arabia held its first elections ever (though only for city level officials), the Palestinian people actually held their first competitive election which wasn't rigged by Yasser Arafat's cronies, Egypt has announced they will end to 24 year old "state of emergency" which gave Mubarrak dictatorial powers plus it will now be legal for other candidates to run for office, finally the Syrian installed government in Lebanon is resigning with free election promised this summer. Could things finally be changing for the better in the Arab world?
It's pretty clear that none of these changes would be happening if Bush & Blair hadn't decided to make greater freedom in the Middle East a high priority. Also they've kept constant pressure on these regimes in order to force them to make positive changes. Heck, they even got Libya's Kadafi to agree to end support of terrorism and pay restitution to the families of Pan-Am flight 103 which blew up over Lockerby, Scotland. So the question is this a case of the neo-cons getting the right policy? Will greater democracy in the Middle East lead to moderate governments (like as happened in Palestine and Iraq) or will it lead to Iranian style Theocracies being brought to power? Do you believe democratically elected governments will be less repressive on their people then the current dictatorships and will democratically elected governments make pro-market reforms to help get the stagnate economies of the Arab world growing again.
Lastly, I’d like to hear if people think these reforms will help alleviate some of the anger and envy the Arab world feels towards the outside world. It’s not inconceivable that greater freedoms at home might lead fewer young Arab men to feel like Jihad is the answer to all of life’s problems. What’s your take on this?Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
-
too soon to say."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
Pakistan
Uzbekistan
Russia
Turkmenistan
Tajikistan
Democracy promotion
Egypt Changing its constitution to be more democratic.
Mubarak puts up nominal opposition after he gets to screen the candidates, yay.
Libya gives up WMD's
Not the same thing as democracy. In fact, they're off our **** list, so democracy is less likely than before.
Elections in Palestine.
Are you saying that Bush assassinated Arafat? How exactly is this Bush's success? Bush can have the elections in Palestine if he also takes the blame for the destruction of the reformists in Iran.
"Show" elections. The Afghan government does not control the country.
Interestingly enough, parliamentary elections were just pushed back. It's still a Presidential dictatorship.
Elections in Iraq
Where we still don't know who the candidates exactly are, a full month after the election. Anonymous democracy.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Originally posted by lord of the mark
too soon to say.BlahComment
-
Phhhtttt!Only feebs vote.Comment
-
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
-
The idea of testing the waters for democratic reform in Saudi Arabia preceded the invasion of Iraq. You might as well credit Osama Bin Laden. The Saudi government is genuinely afraid of al-Quaida, andf are hoping to steal some of Osama's wind by pernitting some democratic reforms. The US government has also been advocating democratic reform for quite some time also. The Saudi's are going about it very cautiously though as they don't want to wind up like the Shah of Iran.
The recent progress in Palestine I think you can attribute to the passing of Yassir Arafat. Everything just seemed to begin to sanp in place after his ffuneral didn't it? Evidently he's done more for the Palestinian psople in death than in life."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
-
Not as much as all the lives saved and all the free people.Originally posted by Dissident
do all the dead people on both sides mean nothing to you?
You know, some people believe that freeedom is worth dying for...I know our forefathers did."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
-
I don't care if they were right or not or who gets the credit, I just hope the events stay on course. In the end the peace and democracy will rest on the people of the Arab countries. It's they who will have to make it work and seize on the opportunity that they now have regardless of where it came fromWhich side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul TighComment
-
How was Ukraine a democratic revolution?Originally posted by DanS
Ukraine"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
-
Few are losing their lives in most of these revolutions.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
-
Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.
- Paul ValeryComment
-
Amazing how "coincidental" all these events are to Bush/Blair policies.
The left will use any excuse to keep from admitting that "Peace through strength" works and appeasement never does."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
-
Overturning a fixed election. What's your definition of a democratic revolution?How was Ukraine a democratic revolution?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
Comment