At what point did German defeat in WW2 become inevitable?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You still believe those game reviews?

From PC Lamer? No. Computer Games has generally been my best guide, since they actually wait to review a game until they have a finished product, and they don't do previews, so they don't get all hyped before hand. Computer Gaming World isn't bad.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Are you saying that Japanese military and foreign policy wasn't taking Japan into direct conflict with the United States?

The U.S. was ****-blocking Japan. If we hadn't slapped an embargo on them, they wouldn't have felt the need to go to war with us. They deserved an embargo, so I'm not saying we were wrong.

[Shogun Gunner]

exactly, which led us into direct conflict. Japan was ultra-nationalistic and had some of the same hallmarks as the nazis (thinking they were a superior race, death camps, unrestricted warfare to seize land/resources)

I don't see a scenario where the US avoids conflict with Japan

[Dr Strangelove]

Once the US placed an embargo on the shipment of American oil to Japan the Japanese really had no choice. The imperial government knew quite well that Japan's economy and war effort would come to a screeching halt by 1943 without some source of oil. Their only alternative was to seize the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies, but in order to do that they would have to sail right past American occupied Phillipines. The Japanese military realised that to do so would give the US a choke hold on strategic Japanese supplies. All the US would have to do to once again cut Japan's oil supply would be to deploy their legendary B-17s against the tanker routes from the East Indies.

[Drake Tungsten]

Are you saying that Japanese military and foreign policy wasn't taking Japan into direct conflict with the United States?

I'm saying that the course Japan took wasn't inevitable. There was a major policy disagreement between the IJA and the IJN during the 30's that would have changed history greatly had its outcome been different. If the Army had had its way, Japan might have been attacking the Russians from the east while the Germans attacked from the west...

The U.S. was ****-blocking Japan. If we hadn't slapped an embargo on them, they wouldn't have felt the need to go to war with us. They deserved an embargo, so I'm not saying we were wrong.

That too. The Japanese never really wanted a war with the U.S. but the oil embargo and the threat of American interference in any push for control of the oil reserves in the Dutch East Indies gave them little choice.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
If the Army had had its way, Japan might have been attacking the Russians from the east while the Germans attacked from the west...

The IJA tried twice, and got stomped twice.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
That too. The Japanese never really wanted a war with the U.S. but the oil embargo and the threat of American interference in any push for control of the oil reserves in the Dutch East Indies gave them little choice.

That probably had something to do with Japan's continual invasion of neighbouring countries.

[Straybow]

Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Hitler was the embodiment of good old fashioned European superstition and bigotry transplanted into the 20th century. His death and dsigrace was the last gasp of the essetial spirit of the old order. Litterally he had to die for the sins of Europe's past.

Then how come the bigotry is still there, with both antisemitism and neonazism on the rise?

[Drake Tungsten]

Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked.

I really doubt the USSR could've put up much of a fight in the Russian Far East at the time of Pearl Harbor.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked.

I really doubt the USSR could've put up much of a fight in the Russian Far East at the time of Pearl Harbor.

In fact, it was the Richard Sorge spy ring that alerted Stalin to the planned Japanese attack on the US and Britain, allowing him to transfer the very powerful Siberian units to lead the December counter-attack which saved Moscow.

[Drake Tungsten]

So what happens to Moscow if those Siberian units are tied up fighting the Japanese? This isn't rocket science...

[techumseh]

Moscow falls, I guess. So?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
So what happens to Moscow if those Siberian units are tied up fighting the Japanese? This isn't rocket science...

You get a lot of dead IJA soldiers. They were just woefully unequipped for a Siberian winter.

[Drake Tungsten]

Moscow falls, I guess. So?

Do you really think the Japanese would "get their butts kicked" by a country whose capital had just fallen to the Nazis? The Russians could've held off a Japanese attack with Zhukov and his Siberian troops, but they probably would've lost the war because of it...

[techumseh]

Pure speculation.

[Drake Tungsten]

Isn't this whole thread pure speculation?