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Which is what you get by reading the first few paragraphs.
Why is reading the whole thing a citizen's duty?
Why is reading the whole thing a citizen's duty?
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B♭3 -
To be informed of what? That this administration is doing more things that don't jive well with the ideals that I believe this country to be founded upon?
Why do I need to read the whole article? The summary does enough, I believe. What can I possibly gain from knowing all the tiny details that the article would throw at me?
How is that going to change the current powerlessness of the average citizen living in a safe state? How is that going to change the futility in voting for a third party in this duolithic party state? How is that going to rouse the masses of disinterested voters who have failed and will fail to show up at the voting booths? How is that going to change the status quo?
If everyone gave enough of a **** about the state of the country to spend 20 minutes reading important articles like this, maybe the status quo could be changed.
Whining and *****ing about being powerless in this country isn't going to get you anywhere. If you give a ****, donate some money to the ACLU or the CCR, work for a Congressional campaign of someone who wants to stop these practices, start a movement yourself. Reading the article makes you more informed about the issue, so that you could more easily convince other people to your POV.
You're not powerless. Dean likes to say that voting in a democracy is the absolute minimum duty for a citizen, it only gets you a C. People ought to do more.
Anyways, this is an absurd thing to argue about, and I don't want to threadjack my own thread."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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If everyone gave enough of a **** about the state of the country to spend 20 minutes reading important articles like this, maybe the status quo could be changed.
How exactly is this article "important", and how exactly would reading this article change the status quo?
Whining and *****ing about being powerless in this country isn't going to get you anywhere.
Who's whining? I'm merely pointing out that this article, honestly, doesn't meet the requirements of being "important", "critical" or any other sort of threshold for it to be "required reading" for any citizen.
If you give a ****, donate some money to the ACLU or the CCR, work for a Congressional campaign of someone who wants to stop these practices, start a movement yourself.
Is there anyone in Congress who really, truly wants to stop these practices? The two party state has led to the creation of a political caste as toothless and irresponsible as a spoiled infant.
You want to call reading this article a citizen's duty? Fine. I disagree.
I say a citizen's true duty is to destroy this festering duopoly and create a true, direct democracy.
Reading the article makes you more informed about the issue, so that you could more easily convince other people to your POV.
Why should I read the whole article when I can get the basic thrust of it reading the first few paragraphs? Should I then read the full text of every article critical or in support of various policies? What if the issue doesn't interest me? Why should I devote finite resources to focusing on policies which I care little about?
Should I post numerous 5000-word articles discussing the merits or flaws of, say, space exploration, open-source software, social security privatization, among other things? Would it be a citizen's civic duty to read them all?
I think not. Spending all that time reading about an issue and doing nothing is almost as bad as spending all that time being ignorant and doing nothing.
Pick your battles, Ramo. Frankly, outsourcing torture? Sure, it's a problem. But why should I focus my attentions on that when I'm more concerned with how my technofundamentalism and libertarian outlook on data clashes with how restrictive the current administration is being with science, as well as Congress's sclerotic yet murderous hold on free information.
Again, I ask you. How is reading this whole article a citizen's duty? Will reading this particular article actually change the status quo?
You're not powerless.
Then why didn't my vote count in this past election? Then why can't I, and hundreds, if not thousands of other donors, make a viable third party? I'm not powerless, per se, but that doesn't mean my actions actually have any effect.B♭3Comment
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I think this is a little patetic. Wild screams about an extradiction, but not a single word about the country that actually did the torture.
Ramo, why didn't you start a thread about torture in Syria instead of yet another Bushhate tread ? You would problably get a better world if you did something to get rid of states performing torture instead of one making you feel good trying to kick at Bush.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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not a single word about the country that actually did the torture.
Um... do you know of anyone that holds up Syria as a good country? Do you know of anyone that praises them? On the other hand, how many people think the US is (or should be) morally above this?
Good... now put two and two together.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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"Among these critics is Michael Scheuer, a former C.I.A. counter-terrorism expert who helped establish the practice of rendition. "
Enough said."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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You got me wrong - I quite agree that Syria is a country without even the simplest basic rights for anyone that get caught up there, but it wasn't that I was complaining over, it was the bias. The statement was US is bad but not a comment about that it maybe was Syria that should correct something (I guess that that was the understatement of the week)Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
not a single word about the country that actually did the torture.
Um... do you know of anyone that holds up Syria as a good country? Do you know of anyone that praises them? On the other hand, how many people think the US is (or should be) morally above this?
Good... now put two and two together.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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It might help those of us who don't know who the man is if you say why it's enough.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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im getting tired of doing everybodys googling for them.Originally posted by DinoDoc
It might help those of us who don't know who the man is if you say why it's enough.
Try Anonymous. Try Imperial Hubris."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Q, I don't want to threadjack this thread anymore. I'd just add that plenty of Congressmen and Senators (including both of your Senators) oppose this practice, and that there are countless ways to impact the system, the "duopoly" is not an insurmountable barrier. If you want to continue, please start another thread about it.
I think this is a little patetic. Wild screams about an extradiction, but not a single word about the country that actually did the torture.
Ramo, why didn't you start a thread about torture in Syria instead of yet another Bushhate tread ? You would problably get a better world if you did something to get rid of states performing torture instead of one making you feel good trying to kick at Bush.
1. I live in the US, not Syria. It's my gov't that is doing this. And it is obscene.
2. The US is a democracy. I can influence its actions by convincing other people to get rid of this program.
3. The US unquestionably has had a better gov't than than Syria. That's why its so objectionable that Bush is destroying the very things that makes our society more free.
4. It's news. Syrian torture has been going on for a while without significant change.
You are pathetic. Complaining that someone opposes torture from the United States? What the hell is wrong with you?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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An illegal immigraint from Syria (who was also thought to be a terrorist) was caught and deported back to Syria. The Syrian government whipped him with cable and kept him in Jail and now he blames the US. Of course.Originally posted by Q Cubed
torture to other people
torture to me
reading the article == torture. summary?
Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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im getting tired of doing everybodys googling for them.
Try Anonymous. Try Imperial Hubris.
I've heard of them. What's the problem?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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it wasn't that I was complaining over, it was the bias. The statement was US is bad but not a comment about that it maybe was Syria that should correct something
Oh come on... like I said, do you know ANYONE that holds up Syria? We all know it is horrible country, so what's the point of saying over and over that it is horrible in these practices. Why don't we have a thread every day on how horrible the Sudan is? After a while, we kind of know.
OTOH, the US is not thought of in those terms and this IS something that can lead to correction (democracies work that way).“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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An illegal immigraint from Syria (who was also thought to be a terrorist) was caught and deported back to Syria. The Syrian government whipped him with cable and kept him in Jail and now he blames the US. Of course.
He's a Canadian citizen.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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