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  • #46
    lotm, you missed the important part of Coleman's point:

    "The confessions the F.B.I. agents elicited, and the trial itself, which ended in May, 2001, created an invaluable public record about Al Qaeda, including details about its funding mechanisms, its internal structure, and its intention to obtain weapons of mass destruction. (The political leadership in Washington, unfortunately, did not pay sufficient attention.)"

    Sounds like exactly those money trails, plots, etc. that you were looking for.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

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    • #47
      Confessions? I hope the interogators arent focused on confessions, but on getting actionable intel about AQ.


      How much actionable intel do you think most Gitmo detainees have, even if they were complicit, considering how long a lot of them have been there?
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

      Comment

      • #48

        Actually I agree with you - people should not be extradicted to countries that are known to do torture, but as I read your OP I couldn't see anything else than yet another Bushbasher. You didn't care to think the step further that maybe it was a good idea to do something with the Syrian system, no, you were quite pleased with one more time telling that Bush is the evil.


        1 : as you say, it's your country - do something

        2 : do it

        3 : see 2

        4 : why don't you apply posters about this ?

        And about your last statement, you apparently are happy if US doesn't torture but it's OK if others do it. Or rather you don't have the energy to make postings about torture in Syria because that doesn't happen to be a Bushbashing issue.

        If I'm not wrong, then torture are reduced immensley im ME through the liberation of Iraq, so Bush may have done something rigth even if that hurt your PC severely.


        Yawn. Making tons of idiotic assumptions about me, I see. You're not worth having a discussion with.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by Ramo


          Yawn. Making tons of idiotic assumptions about me, I see. You're not worth having a discussion with.
          Actually, that answer I expected, sadly enough, because I hoped that you wanted to take up the problem about torture, not Bushbashing.
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

          Comment

          • #50
            For all Colemans point on its good to have lawyers around, IIUC most prosecutors in normal criminal cases like to get confessions before the defense attorney shows up - you get a lot more that way, from tough questioning (No torture, of course).


            Not sure there's an analogy here. First off, you have the greatly smaller expectation for due process on the part of the terror suspects, and you also have priorities other than conviction.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

            Comment

            • #51

              Actually, that answer I expected, sadly enough, because I hoped that you wanted to take up the problem about torture, not Bushbashing


              You're such a shameless hypocrite. You assume that I don't care about torture outside of the US, multiple times in your posts, knowing absolutely nothing about me. **** off.
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

              Comment

              • #52
                Originally posted by Ramo

                Actually, that answer I expected, sadly enough, because I hoped that you wanted to take up the problem about torture, not Bushbashing


                You're such a shameless hypocrite. You assume that I don't care about torture outside of the US, multiple times in your posts, knowing absolutely nothing about me. **** off.
                Since I don't know anything else about you than this post and the way you presented it, then I don't have any other choice. It is you that states that Bush are evil, but totally ignore any Syrian evil by not posting anything about how they are treating people.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

                Comment

                • #53
                  It's you that states that Syria is evil, but totally ignore any Burmese evil by not posting anything about how they are treating people? Why do you love the torture of the Burmese people?

                  And the article does talk about Syrian torture. That's the freakin' point bright guy.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ramo
                    It's you that states that Syria is evil, but totally ignore any Burmese evil by not posting anything about how they are treating people? Why do you love the torture of the Burmese people?

                    And the article does talk about Syrian torture. That's the freakin' point bright guy.
                    Oh, Syria isn't evil ? Where has anyone ever stated that ?

                    I quite agree that the Burmese regime isn't a nice one, but I can't find any hint in the current thread refering to them.

                    You are right, the article refers to Syrian actions, but that doesn't change my statement a bit. The main purpose of this thread is to bash Bush, not to do anything for those captured in the Syrian system or to change the Syrian system.
                    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                    Steven Weinberg

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      It goes without saying that the Syrian gov't is extremely bad, doofus. That's why no one is saying that. It's like saying "sky is blue" or "BlackCat is being an ass."

                      The purpose of the thread isn't to bash Bush; it's to call attention to our horrible system, and have it fixed. That's the great thing about a democracy - things can be changed by popular opinion. A form of government that doesn't exist in Syria.

                      So spare my your hypocrisy. It's clear you don't care about the Syrian people, or the innocents tortured, you just can't stand the criticism of Bush.

                      And stop threadjacking. You can discuss Syria in another thread if you want.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ramo
                        It goes without saying that the Syrian gov't is extremely bad, doofus. That's why no one is saying that. It's like saying "sky is blue" or "BlackCat is being an ass."

                        The purpose of the thread isn't to bash Bush; it's to call attention to our horrible system, and have it fixed. That's the great thing about a democracy - things can be changed by popular opinion. A form of government that doesn't exist in Syria.

                        So spare my your hypocrisy. It's clear you don't care about the Syrian people, or the innocents tortured, you just can't stand the criticism of Bush.

                        And stop threadjacking. You can discuss Syria in another thread if you want.
                        First of all, I don't think that Bush is the the perfect ruler of US, actually I think that he screwed up seriously according to post war conditions in Iraq, so please don't think that I'm a blind supporter of him - I just don't think that he is a total idiot witch seems to be the standard opinion and wich you seems to be a represent of.


                        You think that it is only US that makes wrong desicions about extradictions ? Well, it has also happend in my country, and it is not good, but that still doesn't make any change to my claim that it's those countries that do the torture that should be exposed. I haven't heard anything about that from you.

                        I don't undestand your claim that I'm treadjacking - actually I am trying to make you into making new threads about Syrian torture wich you apparently don't want. Why not ?


                        I don't know what pleasure it gave you writing "BlackCat is being an ass.", but I hope that you enjoyed it those few seconds it took to write it - actually, I don't care if someone writes stuff like that - usually it's a sign of lack of evidence.
                        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                        Steven Weinberg

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          I write "Blackat is being as ass" because it's assholish behavior to assume that just because someone criticizes Bush's torture by proxy, he supports Syrian torture. Just making that clear. It's bad manners, and it pisses people off - hence the comment. You're just trying to change the subject because Bush's pro-torture policies are being criticized. That's quite clear.

                          As for exposing Syrian torture, it's already exposed. Everyone knows. Everyone doesn't like it. "Exposing" Syrian torture is along the lines of "exposing" the Holocaust. I'm sure that a thread only about Syrian torture wouldn't have very much discussion, just a bunch of people agreeing.

                          You are threadjacking, this thread is about a specific set of policies outlined in the article. As I said, you can make another thread only about Syrian torture, or sanctimonious whining, or whatever you want. I'm not opposed to that in any way. I just don't want said sanctimonious whining to clutter my thread.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                            it wasn't that I was complaining over, it was the bias. The statement was US is bad but not a comment about that it maybe was Syria that should correct something


                            Oh come on... like I said, do you know ANYONE that holds up Syria? We all know it is horrible country, so what's the point of saying over and over that it is horrible in these practices. Why don't we have a thread every day on how horrible the Sudan is? After a while, we kind of know.

                            OTOH, the US is not thought of in those terms and this IS something that can lead to correction (democracies work that way).
                            Sorry late answer, hope you are not that annoyed


                            youself. Yeah, just accept that certain countries are horrible and don't do anything to that. After some time noone cares a bit because thats the way it is in that country. And of course, if someone in the future tries to say anything about these countries, then it is resonable just to state that someone earlier has stated that they were evil, so no reason to mention what happens currently.
                            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                            Steven Weinberg

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Please don't clutter up this thread, I made a Syrian torture/sanctimonius whining thread just for you.

                              Apolyton Civilization Site
                              http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129425
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Oerdin


                                An illegal immigraint from Syria (who was also thought to be a terrorist) was caught and deported back to Syria. The Syrian government whipped him with cable and kept him in Jail and now he blames the US. Of course.
                                Don't be an ass.

                                He was a canadian citizen who was "caught" while transferring between planes at La Guardia en route to his home in Canada (coming back from vacation in Tunisia). He hadn't been to Syria since he was 16.
                                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                                Killing it is the new killing it
                                Ultima Ratio Regum

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