Europe - Thy Name is Cowardice?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's the only thing you found wrong with that collection of BS he called a post?

You got something to say, Dino?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

The British and Argentines must be really fond of their wool industries.

Well, there´s exceptions to every rule. And Thatcher was a crazy ***** any way you look at it, so...

[Last Conformist]

I'm sure Thatcher was terrific in bed.

But claiming something to be true of all wars, and then shrugging off a counterexample with that all rules have exceptions takes style.

[Zoid]

Thanks (I think...)

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dissident
to muslim holiday.

If christmas is a holiday, then ramadan should be.

Surely ayd al-fitr it is in majorly Muslim countries.

[Lincoln]

Where is Wnston Churchill when we need him. Ever heard of him GePap? No, I didn't think so. Are you pretty good at writing fiction???

[Last Conformist]

Winston Churchill is providing electricity for a couple London boroughs.

[Heresson]

The funny bit is that for all the talk about self-determination, the Magyar and German people's were specifically denied self-determination. Such bald faced hypocrasy does wear down the system over time. Until March 1939, almost every signle move by Hitler fits the notion of German self-determination. Isn't it a German right to defend themselves (re-armament in '35)? Isn't it the German's right to full sovereignty on all its territory part of self-determination? (Rhur in '36) Isn't the peaceful unity of the German people part of self determination? (Anschluss, '38). And finally, if the Sudeten Germans want to join the Fatherland, why should they not have that right? (the Munich conference, '38).

All these matters but Sudety and Austria, weren't they supposed to be temporary? So I thought.
When it comes to Austria, I think it was a mistake as well. When it comes to Sudetes, to some extent as well.
But when it comes to Polish boarder, the Allies weren't all that harsh to Germany.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap
Hmm, lets look at the dates- 1906 to 1914...OH yes, thats DECADES of seeking to limit german power as you claim, right? Or are we talking about some problem with lingusitics? Here is a clue: 1914-1906= 8 years. 8<10, hence, less than a decade of tensions. DEVADES would have to be more then 1 decade, hence, say 2, decades- 1914-20=1894... So the UK was part of the anti-German entenet in 1894? Really!? Link for that?

Hints for the factually challenged. WW1 lasted until 1918. Do you suppose that GB and France stopped trying to affect German power in 1914?

How silly are you?

Yes, knuclkehead, France was trying to get back at Germany after their humiliation in 1871- NOT the UK though, as you claimed that the UK and France had been working together vs Germany for decades. Until bismarck got kicked out it was Germany that had succeeded in isolating France, not the other way around. It was only once the Weltpolitik crowd got to power that the containment of France fell apart and relations with the UK soured.

Well, sweetheart, I didn't say 'together at the same time and forever and ever'. Duh!

I said France and Britain had been trying to contain German power for decades. What, 1918-1870 = less than 10 or 20 years?

And no, I did not say what you claim in your last statement- all I did was to point out you claim that the UK and France had been working for many decades prior to WW1 to contain German power was wrong. The UK became increasingly alarmed as the Germans became more expansionist, but it took their support of the Boers and the Navals build-up to get them to patch things up with France and Russia.

Its sad to see your simplistic vision of history streches the vasteness of history. I would suggest going to a library and reading a few book slowly, to try to get a better understanding...

I didn't say GB and France had been allied for 40 years, jeeneeus, that was your leapt to conclusion. Maybe you should read posts more slowly.

Incidently, in what year did the French ink an alliance with Russia, and against whom or what was it intended? You claim to be in command of all the facts, are you?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap
Lets continue to myth busting:

All in all, the weakness and lack of coordination between the UK and France and other smaller states from March 39 to September 39 has more to do with the problems of the war than Munich. Had the allies been able to block the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact then things might have gone very differently, along with another long listof could have beens.

The only myth you can't bust is that Versailles was a justifiable, and good, reason for France to resume war with Germany.

That they didn't over the Ruhr and some of the armaments clauses was good on them, as some of the provisions of the treaty were recognised as too harsh by many people. Austria, well now your getting close to going out of bounds, and war with Germany over that would have been perfectly justified. There was a reason that Austria was forbidden union with Germany, that being if Germany were too big she would be too much of a threat to the rest of Europe. God damn, the people who made their careers in European government and politics in the early twentieth century were right! Go figure.

However, how anyone could argue that the betrayal of an ally, and the forcing of that ally to give up its natural frontiers with Germany in 1938 is beyond me. It would take a moron of massive proportions to suggest that Hitler having his way with the Czechs was in any way justified on grounds of race. Oops, you are arguing that, aren't you, GePap?

[chequita guevara]

To be fair, in the 1930s, nationalism was still a huge force in Europe, and many outside Germany thought it perfectly reasonable that all Germans should live in a German state.

[notyoueither]

Yes, I would say the appeasers did.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
To be fair, in the 1930s, nationalism was still a huge force in Europe, and many outside Germany thought it perfectly reasonable that all Germans should live in a German state.

Che, I think the Germans even today have somewhat the same attitude today. Perhaps someone from Germany can correct me, but people of German descent can move to Germany and become German citizens without more. People who are not of German descent cannot become German citizens.

(Compare this to Israel. Very similar, not so?)

[Heresson]

Except for that, at least for people from Russia, Israel demands proper religion as well

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
The sad truth to why Adolf Hitler could rise to power and unhindred could plot world domination is that the super powers at the time ie France, Britain and the US thought that they could control Hitler or at least work with him within the capitalist system as they did with other fascist dictators at the time. Mussolini had ruled in Italy since the late 1920s and had no ambition for world conquest. The war in Abessinia was just another colonial war, and besides France and England had already taken the best of Africa already. Franco was not a problem either, being tied up in a civil war and all. And there was a fascist government in Brazil that was happy to trade whatever goods Europe needed.

So it isn´t strange that they thought they could treat Nazi Germany that same way. It wasn´t until the nazis begin to threaten the interests of the leading nations they decided to make a stand. And then, of course, it was too late. Mayhem and disaster followed for 6 awful years.

Had Nazi Germany been content with Austria and the Sudetenland, and played ball with the other nations as good capitalists, they would´ve been left alone. No matter the atrocities commited within their borders. After all as long as you can make a buck, who gives a rats ass about human rights?

WWII was a war to defend business interests. Just as every other war on this planet for as long as there´s been people. It´s not pretty, but it´s true

It is certainly amusing to read history through a pink lens. Their worldview is almost as if Michael Moore were writing their history books: All history is a conspiracy of the wealthy and powerful to control events and to make a buck. Actually, Hitler was also one of these Michael Moore types as well, with the exception that his conspirators were Jews and Socialists.