Gibraltarian Civ.

[Jacobite1688]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
I think so, but let's see what jasev has to say. He's from Seville, so you never know

That's a good idea, let's not lose our sense of humor about this all.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Jacobite1688


That's a good idea, let's not lose our sense of humor about this all.

Wellcome to the forum, Jacobite. I think that what you quoted is the most important thing. We can disagree on history or on whatever, but being polite, without offense at all. I'm tired of some people that believe the best way to convince is insult.

[Estilpón]

Originally posted by yaroslav
Wellcome to the forum, Jacobite. I think that what you quoted is the most important thing. We can disagree on history or on whatever, but being polite, without offense at all. I'm tired of some people that believe the best way to convince is insult.

exactly, we -I think- appreciated your contributions

[jasev]

I think so, but let's see what jasev has to say. He's from Seville, so you never know

They were all ALWAYS, to the last, seen as foregin invaders. If you know of a reference to the contrary, I would like to see it. Point me to one, por favor.

Sorry, I haven't a reference to that at this moment. But the fact that Rodrigo DÃaz de Vivar, aka El Cid Campeador, our greatest national hero, worked for the moslim kings of Zaragoza when he was expelled from Castilla, supports my point, don't you think so? BTW, "Cid" comes from arab word "Sid", i.e, "Lord".

[Jacobite1688]

Originally posted by jasev




But the fact that Rodrigo DÃaz de Vivar, aka El Cid Campeador, our greatest national hero, worked for the moslim kings of Zaragoza when he was expelled from Castilla, supports my point, don't you think so? BTW, "Cid" comes from arab word "Sid", i.e, "Lord".

A well known fact, although it does not clearly, on its own, support or disprove your point. I think we have reached the point where we both have laid out good supports for our views and readers can conclude what they will.

You are a very intelligent person and I am very SERIOUS when I say that I hope next time we meet in the forums that we are in agreement against somebody else.

[Waku]

Let's add some fuel to the flames

Don't forget that the occupation of Gibraltar by the brits was carried out in a very opportunistic and dirty maneuver against a country in the middle of a civil war. And the rights over the rock were accquired taking advantage again of a weakened country forced to sign.

Think for a second that during the US Civil War a bunch of muslins had taken Manhattan and at the end of the war the US had been forced to accept such situation

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Waku

Don't forget that the occupation of Gibraltar by the brits was carried out in a very opportunistic and dirty maneuver against a country in the middle of a civil war. And the rights over the rock were accquired taking advantage again of a weakened country forced to sign.

What I won't ever understand is that:

a) the Brits occupied Gibraltar as an action for the side that was defeated in the end,

b) it was occupied by a joint Anglo-Dutch force, if I'm not wrong. Why did the Dutch renounce to their share of the Rock?

This I can only explain due to the Brit cunning sense of opportunity, and the Spanish/continental Europe general dumbness.

[jasev]

a) the Brits occupied Gibraltar as an action for the side that was defeated in the end,

That was a wrong impression, Fiera. The war ended with a stalemate. Castilla won the civil war against aragón, but the french lost in Europe against the British and Dutch. The war only ended because the Archduke Charles of Habsburg become candidate to austrian throne and the British decided to stop the fight. But the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht were absolutely negative for Spanish and French: Spain lost Gibraltar, Menorca, Sicilia, Napoles and La Florida, receiving La Luisiana from France. Felipe V had to rennounce to any rights he or his descendants could have to the french crown.

[Jacobite1688]

Originally posted by jasev


The war only ended because the Archduke Charles of Habsburg become candidate to austrian throne and the British decided to stop the fight. But the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht were absolutely negative for Spanish and French: Spain lost Gibraltar, Menorca, Sicilia, Napoles and La Florida, receiving La Luisiana from France. Felipe V had to rennounce to any rights he or his descendants could have to the french crown.

DIOS MIO, AT LAST, WE ARE IN AGREEMENT!

Originally posted by jasev
...the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht were absolutely negative for Spanish and French...

They did get their Bourbon on the throne, for what it was worth.

[Jay Bee]

Louisiana and Florida changing of hands between France, Spain and Britain had nothing to do with the War of Succession, jasev. You are messing that one up with the French and Indian War (the American branch of the Seven Years War).

[jasev]

Louisiana and Florida changing of hands between France, Spain and Britain had nothing to do with the War of Succession, jasev. You are messing that one up with the French and Indian War (the American branch of the Seven Years War).

Ooops! right, sorry

DIOS MIO, AT LAST, WE ARE IN AGREEMENT!

Sorry again, I didn't pretend to. I'll do my best to avoid this happening again.

[jasev]

They did get their Bourbon on the throne, for what it was worth.

I'm not sure if that was a positive consequence for the spanish
See? Now we're disagreeing again

[Jacobite1688]

I said for what it was worth...You eventualy got a fantastic Goya painting out of the deal.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by jasev

Ooops! right, sorry

No, that's not enough. As a punishment I order you to write a scenario on that shameful incident

PS. It would be fun

[Jacobite1688]

Jasev, are we going to work together on a 1713 scenario or a 1763 scenario?