Scenario Preview: Lebensraum 1939

[Case]

On the topic of Turkey, Ataturk's legacy really shouldn't increase the value of mosques. Ataturk is best remembered for his secular reforms which greatly reduced the influence of religion in Turkey

[klesh]

Yeah I know that. The Wonder itself is a holdover from AoW. Henrik pointed out that Turkey wasnt exactly hyper-religious at the time, so I went with merely a namechange. The fact that it boosts temples is pretty much a gameply issue to help Turkey's Monarchy...

As far as the text goes in the civlopedia, the pedia will eventually be changed for that.

-FMK.

[tarpoon]

A picture of an destroyed Char 2C (Char du Rupture) and some german landers visiting it.

[Pevonian]

The scenario looks like it will be really good. I don't suppose there's any room but if there is a space I'd like to join that PBEM game...

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[Pevonian]

Hmm

Contrary to the former post by (I forget whom, but he had an Irish Tricolour Flag)

Errr... From the map FMK it looks as though Ireland is part of Britain. We were, with the exception of the North however, an independent nation by 1939.

This however (to my knowledge) is untrue. Ireland did have home rule during this period, but was part of the British Empire and the Commonwealth until it became the fully independant "Eire" in 1948, meaning that Britain could still have control over it's cities in Civ (you said you wanted them to have more cities or similar earlier I think....)

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[Case]

Re: Hmm

Originally posted by Pevonian
This however (to my knowledge) is untrue. Ireland did have home rule during this period, but was part of the British Empire and the Commonwealth until it became the fully independant "Eire" in 1948, meaning that Britain could still have control over it's cities in Civ (you said you wanted them to have more cities or similar earlier I think....)

While Ireland was still part of the Commonwealth in 1939-45, it was most certainly not alligned with Britain. The Commonwealth was/is a loose political club, and is in no way a military or economic alliance.

[our_man]

In response to your question Pevonian, Ireland only became a Republic in 1947 I believe, until then we were only a Dominion. Suggesting however that Ireland should be lumped into the British Civ at the beginning of the game is not realistic from a historical point of view.

Up until 1932 the British parliament still exerted control over our laws, but due to the Statute of Westminster of 1927 (in which Kevin O'Higgins played a pivotal role in creating) Dominion states could change their constitution without consulting Britain. With the coming to power of Fianna Fail, de Valera created a new constitution which destroyed the power of Governor-General, which was the last British office that could influence our independence. Throughout the 30's de Valera sought to remove all links with Britain - hence the Economic War and the returning of the Treaty Ports.

Even if this does not convince you as to why Ireland should be represented neutrally, the fact that we declared neutrality (the only Dominion country to do so) during the 2nd World War is enough of a criteria to warrant an independent country. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

As it is in the scenario, I feel that there should be a few Minor Nations units in Ireland, as all the British have to do is walk into the Irish cities - if we had been invaded by either an Allied or Axis power we would have put up some sort of fight. Of course we would have got our asses kicked, but in Civ terms surely we would have been able to damage a unit or two? Maybe some partisans?

[Case]

If anyone's interested, the Irish OOB for WW2 can be found at: http://home.adelphia.net/~dryan67/orders/eire.html

From looking at where the 2 divisions were deployed (Dublin and Cork), I'd guess that the Irish were mainly concerned about the British and/or Germans trying to grab their strategic ports. The relative absence of units on the border with Northern Ireland is also interesting.

[our_man]

Thanks for the link Case! It makes for interesting reading - The "Piddling Panzers".

[Arthedain]

Hey!
Has anyone thought of that Vilna should belong to poland? Well it's not that important because it was quickly ockupied by the Soviet Union but I just wanted to tell you.

Otherwise i must say that this is a great scen FMK

[Boco]

When was the Commonwealth formed (hope I didn't miss an earlier post)?

[Case]

Originally posted by Boco
When was the Commonwealth formed (hope I didn't miss an earlier post)?

I think that the British renamed their Empire as the Commonwealth after WW1. The current form of the commonwealth (ie a pointless club of ex-British colonies) came into being after WW2.

[techumseh]

The Commonwealth was formed in the '50s I believe, as the British Empire dissolved with the independence first of India and then the African and Caribbean colonies. The Queen wanted something like an empire to rule over, but India and others wanted to be republics, so they let her be the "head" of the Commonwealth.

It also had an economic aspect, with "favourable" tariffs for Commonwealth countries for their raw materials in exchange for British manufactured goods. This aspect has more or less disappeared with Britain joining the European market. Since the end of apartheid, South Africa has rejoined the Commonwealth. They were kicked out in the '60s.

[tanelorn]

Great scenario, I single- played both versions (well, at least a few turns).
I know this is an alternate history scenario but, IMHO:

A few points about the map: Back at 1939 Adrianople was Turkish, not Bulgarian and Mosul was Iraqi, not Turkish.

The British mandate was lifted and Iraq was an independed monarchy, nominally, but because of the oilfields -in Mosul of all places-, in the Kurdish territory there were still imperial troops stationed in the area. So, when a pro-axis coup-d' etat was staged after the war broke out, the British intervened and took active control. They were in conflict with Vichy French in control of Syria and Lebanon too.

The Bulgarians held Adrianople only briefly, during the Balkan wars (1912-13).

Moreover, the Turks did not have a production line for Renault tanks (they had only a few samples of tanks), but produced about 100 polish planes .

The Spanish actualy produced Bf 109 Messerchmits as Ha 1109 (Db 601 engines) and Ha 1112 (Merlin engines!).

Moreover, giving so many movement points to ships without lowering their attack factors makes them the ultimate coastal killer. The British navy can shoot the entire European coastline clear in a couple of turns!

What do you think?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by tanelorn

Moreover, giving so many movement points to ships without lowering their attack factors makes them the ultimate coastal killer. The British navy can shoot the entire European coastline clear in a couple of turns!

What do you think?

No doubt about it, shore bombardment is far too powerful. It would be better to give ships lower attack and defense factors and even slightly higher hit points. That way they could take out one land unit but usually get enough damage to make repeat attacks risky.