Magic the Gathering rules

[Urban Ranger]

Thanks.

Now, since Lotus Vale does not come into play, thus, under the player's control, until the full cost has been paid, so would it not make more sense that the lands still need to be put into the graveyard as part of the cost?

If this land destuction is an effect intead, then I'd it gets nullifed by Celestial Dawn.

[Mr. President]

What happens if Ageless Sentinels blocks Battering Ram?

[Urban Ranger]

When it's still a Wall, it'd be destroyed.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Now, since Lotus Vale does not come into play, thus, under the player's control, until the full cost has been paid, so would it not make more sense that the lands still need to be put into the graveyard as part of the cost?

It seems that Lotus Vale is never brought into play -- essentially what happens is that a Plains is brought into play, and that Plains is then enchanted to behave like a Lotus Vale when Celestial Dawn is destroyed. (It's actually that the enchantment causing it to be a Plains is destroyed, but same difference. If there were an enchantment that required that a cost be paid or that a benefit be granted whenever a Swamp is brought into play, then this enchantment wouldn't be triggered if I were to play Evil Influence (did I get that card right?) on a land, causing it to turn into a Swamp -- the land is already in play, so the Swamp is not actually being brought into play.)

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by loinburger
It seems that Lotus Vale is never brought into play -- essentially what happens is that a Plains is brought into play, and that Plains is then enchanted to behave like a Lotus Vale when Celestial Dawn is destroyed. (It's actually that the enchantment causing it to be a Plains is destroyed, but same difference. If there were an enchantment that required that a cost be paid or that a benefit be granted whenever a Swamp is brought into play, then this enchantment wouldn't be triggered if I were to play Evil Influence (did I get that card right?) on a land, causing it to turn into a Swamp -- the land is already in play, so the Swamp is not actually being brought into play.)

I believe that the Lotus Vale was brought into play, but was immediately changed into something else by a continuous effect. When this effect vanishes, it reverts back to the former form.

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
When it's still a Wall, it'd be destroyed.

So if it blocks when it's a Wall, the ability doesn't turn it into a Giant Bird before Battering Ram's ability destroys it? OK.

[Ben Kenobi]

I believe that the Lotus Vale was brought into play, but was immediately changed into something else by a continuous effect. When this effect vanishes, it reverts back to the former form.

For example, look at a spell, Goblin Grenade, that forces you to sacrifice a creature when cast. Even if you counter the spell, you still need to sacrifice the creature. Same principle applies to the Lotus Vale.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Mr. President
So if it blocks when it's a Wall, the ability doesn't turn it into a Giant Bird before Battering Ram's ability destroys it? OK.

I don't think so. Battering Ram destroys any Wall that blocks or is blocked by it. Ageless Sentinel might become a Giant Bird at end of turn, but that does not prevent the resolution of an effect.

[Immortal Wombat]

Ok, new one. You put Pariah on one of your own creatures. A wall for example, or some chinky protection-from-colour card, or a regenerator. Now all the damage that you are dealt is redirected to the creature. I'll quote the card for clarity.

All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead

Then, for the sake of argument, possibly because you're stupid, or because you deliberately want a paradox, you place Treacherous Link on the same creature.

All damage that would be dealt to enchanted creature is dealt to its controller instead

Now either all damage intended for you goes to the creature, and all damage intended for the creature goes to you; or it becomes an infinite loop, and the spells never resolve.

[Urban Ranger]

Good one.

[Immortal Wombat]

http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106764

d'oh! They cancel each other out.

And rather disappointingly, this question has arisen many many times before on the forums.

[Urban Ranger]

Too bad, infinite loop would be much more interesting.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wouldn't the player simply get to choose how much damage goes to Pariah and how much to himself?

[Urban Ranger]

Apperantly not. Looks like the ruling is both effects activate once and exactly once.

[Urban Ranger]

What's "fading?"

What's "ocT?"

Belbe’s Armor
3, Artifact, Nemesis Uncommon
X, ocT: Target creature gets -X/+X until end of turn.

Edit: nevermind what "ocT" is. Just some messed up code on the website. Pah.