Rumsfeld is my hero too...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
I do not recall a more intelligent high-level official since Kissinger.

Own goal!

[Saint Marcus]

Look, pretty much the entire arab world already believe the US attacked Iraq to get its oil. Why confirm that belief?

cause they can?

[dannubis]

Kissinger was directly responsible for at least 3 million civilian casualties in cambodja ...

a real genius was at work here ...

and rumsfeld isn't one bit better in his right wing views ...
only he doesn't wrap it up so well.

but in the end, he will fail in the ultimate goal of reducing the global terrorist treath.

[Sava]

Rumsfeld is an 4sshole.

[GeneralTacticus]

Kissinger was directly responsible for at least 3 million civilian casualties in cambodja ...

*AHEM* Wasn't even close to that. Even people who would be considered on the far left (John Pilger, for example) don't claim he was responsible for that many dead.

[Sava]

Gt: Doesn't change the fact that Kissinger was an evil piece of crap as well.

[dannubis]

before the american bombardements the kmer rouge was an obscure band of "freedomfighters". The amercian governement caused the cambodian regime to collapse. This resulted in at least 3 million civilian casulties.
So I don't say the bombardements killed that many, but the consequences of Kissinger's actions have led to it...
So he isn't responsible ?

[GeneralTacticus]

Gt: Doesn't change the fact that Kissinger was an evil piece of crap as well.

I know, I agree with you, but it's important not to inflate things too much.

[GeneralTacticus]

before the american bombardements the kmer rouge was an obscure band of "freedomfighters". The amercian governement caused the cambodian regime to collapse. This resulted in at least 3 million civilian casulties.
So I don't say the bombardements killed that many, but the consequences of Kissinger's actions have led to it...
So he isn't responsible ?

Yes, but even the Khmer Rouge didn't kill that many.

[Sava]

It's really not possible for us to know. I think the total estimated death toll of South East Asians from 1963-1975 is like 4 million+. And the blame is shared. Although Kissinger wanted to use the bomb on Hanoi. Good idea

[GeneralTacticus]

It's really not possible for us to know.

True. The onyl way to come up with an estimate is to look at known population figures before and after, and in places like Cambodia the records didn't tend to be very good.

I think the total estimated death toll of South East Asians from 1963-1975 is like 4 million+.

I have no real idea what the precise death toll was, but, yes, ti was definitely in the millions. You can probably add an extra 500 000+ from the Indonesian massacres too.

Although Kissinger wanted to use the bomb on Hanoi. Good idea

He did!? I didn't think even he was that insane...

[dannubis]

the bombardements combined with a decade of civil war, famine and a total collapse of the governement system have let to three million of casualties ...

and frankly i don't see a large difference with the situation in afghanistan.
first the US do something right and remove the TALIBAN regime so far i am with you. But then the governement doesn't claim responsibility for the vacuum of power they created -> civil war ...

[GeneralTacticus]

the bombardements combined with a decade of civil war, famine and a total collapse of the governement system have let to three million of casualties ...

Can I see a source for that?

[dannubis]

"Estimates of the dead range from 1 to 3 million, out of a 1975 population estimated at 7.3 million. "

from http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2732.htm
about half way the page ...

[GeneralTacticus]

Note the word 'estimates'. The fact that the upper limit of something has been put as that doesn't mean that it necessarily is that.