First Woman American Soldier Feared Dead

[Dom Pedro II]

The professor of my military history class and a veteran captain of the Korean War said "It's only the pilots who are willing to go to war again because they never see the faces of the people they kill."

I know Bush was defending us from Ho's Migs in the Gulf of Mexico, but an airforce boy nonetheless.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Or at least not be started by chicken**** draft-dodgers.

And remember all the crap that Clinton got for being a draft-dodger? Those same ignorant conservative voices are strangely silent.

[chequita guevara]

To say that it would be better to be dead because of the possibility (or probabilty) of rape is simply patronizing. Torture is torture. I feel sorry for anyone captured by Hussein's regime, male or female.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
To say that it would be better to be dead because of the possibility (or probabilty) of rape is simply patronizing. Torture is torture. I feel sorry for anyone captured by Hussein's regime, male or female.

Think long and hard - most nations, and most of what passes for fighters in a losing army of a despotic regime, realize that "torture" of EPW's is a no-no.

If in fact she is/was gang-raped, she may still be held for that purpose. Do you think that the perpetrators of that crime will then magically abide by their obligations and repatriate her as a live witness?

A lot of severely tortured prisoners may not be "found" at the end of this war. The five on video are harder to do anything to, because it's confirmed that they were captured alive.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I wasn't responding to what you and Dan had said...I was responding to Starchild's post. That's why I quoted his post in mine. While you might think everyone would be addressing your almighty posts, that wasn't the case here. I don't have a clue as to what you're getting offended at.

Your semantic games are a lot more transparent than you think. I don't care who you were responding to, you were responding to the topic of the thread, not carrying out a private conversation. And your response was flippant and assinine.

[alva]

Not to troll, but does anyone really think the US (or any other nation for that matter) doesn't use the same tactics?
I'm not talking about raping, but certainly torture is done by everyone.

[chequita guevara]

We don't use torture. Ignore reports out of Afganistan that two subjects died of torture in US hands. WE DON'T USE TORTURE. I don't care what evidence you have, we don't use torture. Even if you had a tape, it would obviously have to be faked.

We don't start wars either.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Your semantic games are a lot more transparent than you think. I don't care who you were responding to, you were responding to the topic of the thread, not carrying out a private conversation. And your response was flippant and assinine.

Oh get over it. I was making an ironic comment, directed at Starchild's question, that was only mocking the notion that women are somehow weaker than men. It was sarcasm, nothing more. I thought before you had read into it some terrible offensive thing that isn't there, but now I am wondering if it is because you happen to really believe that and are offended by someone mocking that notion. That isn't the case, I hope?

[MichaeltheGreat]

No, I just find your simpering sarcasm to be annoying and tasteless in a thread dealing with a soldier who is MIA.

[Boris Godunov]

Yeah, well considering others posted flippant remarks before me, and mine wasn't directed at the victim, but those who would seek to demean her, I can only say tough noogies.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We don't use torture. Ignore reports out of Afganistan that two subjects died of torture in US hands. WE DON'T USE TORTURE. I don't care what evidence you have, we don't use torture. Even if you had a tape, it would obviously have to be faked.

, Let's do a little faking of our own, shall we? **** "reports out of Afghanistan" with sources conveniently omitted. Let's not mention that it was an official inquiry by the US into the cause of death of two prisoners that determined that the cause of death was homicide, and that further investigation was warranted into the circumstances of their death. Let's ignore the fact that that investigation is ongoing, and had the US wanted to bury the whole thing under the rug, you and I wouldn't have heard about it. In other words, we identified the issue, and we're taking action.

Yes, let's omit facts and try to create some semblance of an (im)moral equivalence when there is none.

We don't start wars either.

Sure we do, and in this case, the government that we're fighting needs to be wiped from the planet earth. Who started the war and/or why is irrelevant, but let's not miss a chance to get in a "bad, evil US imperialist" dig.

[Jaguar]

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by AnnC
For the record, eight soldiers from the 507th Maintenance Company went missing after the March 23 ambush. Two are women.

Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, 19, Palestine, W.Va.
Army Spc. James Kiehl, 22, Comfort, Texas
Army Pvt. Brandon Sloan, 19, Bedford Heights, Ohio
Army Pfc. Lori Piestewa, 22, Tuba City, Ariz.
Army Sgt. Donald Walters, 33, Salem, Ore.
Army Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38, Cleveland, Ohio
Army Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, 18, El Paso, Texas
Army Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, 35, El Paso, Texas

Source

I wonder why The Sun didn't do a story about Lori Piestewa.

There may have been some spin and BS reasons, considering it's The Sun, but there's also 8 MIA and 7 bodies on the video in question, separate from the 2 confirmed KIA.

Until the bodies on the video are positively identified by one means or another, they'd still normally be classified as MIA and the two KIA are other soldiers whose bodies were recovered, or whose deaths were positively confirmed in some way.

8 MIA, 7 bodies on video means one totally unaccounted for. Given that there's obviously been some analysis of the video to see what happened, it's possible that tentative, as yet unofficial identifications of some or all of the dead were made.

I think that all of their stories are worth knowing.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by alva
Not to troll, but does anyone really think the US (or any other nation for that matter) doesn't use the same tactics?
I'm not talking about raping, but certainly torture is done by everyone.

Actually, in the vast majority of cases, we don't. Unlawful combatants in Afghanistan with potential intel value is another, separate issue (and they've passed from military to CIA custody, so their handling isn't really relevant to what the military will do)

In the last Gulf war, coalition forces handled in excess of 80,000 POW's in a matter of weeks, and the great majority of them in the four days of the ground campaign.

There wasn't time, even if we had the inclination, and there are really only a couple of basis for torture anyway - gratuitous brutality and sadism, which we generally don't tolerate, and coercive interrogation to get tactical intel information.

We know from experience with top-down armies with conscripts and rigid, centralized command structures that common soldier EPWs, and even junior officers, don't know much worth bothering with. Other than the typical name, rank, ID number and unit stuff required by the GC, we don't care. Just move 'em down the road.

Higher level prisoners, or interrogations in the field, well, it's just impossible to say that nothing ever happens, but it's neither official policy, nor is there any official tolerance. The worst claims regarding US forces in the last gulf war basically consisted of rough handling in transit - shoving people around, searching them less than gently, but no major injuries or deaths. We have an incentive in this war and had the same incentive in the last war, to encourage the enemy to surrender, not to discourage him from doing so.

[Kramerman]

MtG, great posts

I share yours and Dan's veiw on this issue

EDIT: tho, i might be a bit biased... i think more highly of women, than i do of men, typically, do to my life experiences and such. Rationally, under the same circumstances i agree that a mans death adn a womans death are equally tragic... but in the back of my mind i would feel a little bit more tragedy from the woman's death.