Who watches Al Jazeera?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, they already broadcast a live firefight... That had a high potential for gratuitous violence, I'd say.

I have no doubt if there was footage of Iraqi blood and gore, CNN would immediately turn away.

[Asher]

Agathon, at first my opinion of you sunk to new lows when you referred to the police as "pigs" in the protest thread.

And now you've gotten to the point where you want to cause trauma to millions of people because you want them all to be anti-war. And even that logic doesn't make sense.

I've seen the carnage, the full 6-minute long Al Jazeera clip they played. You know what it did to me?

It pissed me off. It made me even more pro-war. I was disgusted that the Iraqis could shoot American soldiers in the forehead, execution style.

Perhaps you should think through your position, the gruesome deaths of Americans shown on TV would probably enrage Americans into an even harsher pro-war stance. You'd instill feelings of anger and revenge more than guilt and sadness.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

Interesting spin by someone without an argument.
They're not hiding the truth, they're telling us plainly when people are killed. They're just not forcing us to watch them all die, because most of us are revolted by that and don't want to see it.

Yes but the likes of you are all for this "revolting" thing. I have an argument - it's a simple one - "people should know what they are signing up for when the question of war is at stake, because war is a great, perhaps the greatest evil we know." In a democracy where the people are ultimately responsible for electing the government they should make informed choices.

I didn't see too many corpses in 9-11, did you?

I saw plenty of folks jumping out of windows - as if the main event wasn't gross enough.

QUOTE]For a second there I thought you were referring to the idiots who appeased Hitler, like you appease Iraq. [/QUOTE]

Yeah - the tories who thought he was an ally against the communists.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Asher
It pissed me off. It made me even more pro-war. I was disgusted that the Iraqis could shoot American soldiers in the forehead, execution style.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! The bodies SOLIDIFIED your opinion.

Now showing the US doing the same to Iraqis might weaken it. But maybe not.

Perhaps you should think through your position, the gruesome deaths of Americans shown on TV would probably enrage Americans into an even harsher pro-war stance.

I'm not after this so people can be anti-war. Simply so the news can come out.

They can form the opinions they wish to have. If seeing Americans/Iraqis solidifies an opinion....Great! More power to them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
CONGRATULATIONS!!! The bodies SOLIDIFIED your opinion.

My opinion was already very solid.

Now showing the US doing the same to Iraqis might weaken it. But maybe not.

Hell no, the video have made me think of the Iraqi soldiers as inhumane. They deserve death.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Asher

My opinion was already very solid.

And now its even more solid.

Hell no, the video have made me think of the Iraqi soldiers as inhumane. They deserve death.

As long as networks dont just show either Iraqis being killed (which would cause an anti-war bias) or Americans being killed (which would cause a pro-war bias), I'm all for it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah - the tories who thought he was an ally against the communists.

Hey, genius, Nevile Chamberlain was the head of the Labor government, and Churchill, the major conservative force in the middle of the century, resigned his post over appeasement. Please, get your facts right for once.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
And now its even more solid.

It was completely unnecessary.

I understand that you two like to think of yourselves as superior to Americans (you're both philosopher-type people, no surprise), but I think you underestimate Americans' understanding of what death is.

Get off your high horse, quit assuming everyone is dumber than you are.

Americans know what death is, they don't need to see graphic pictures of it. The only purpose they serve is to shock and disgust people, in a vain attempt to make them anti-war.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher
Agathon, at first my opinion of you sunk to new lows when you referred to the police as "pigs" in the protest thread.

I'm supremely indifferent to your opinion of me. One should only value the opinions of the informed and the honest. I called them pigs because they threatened peaceful protesters - I was there. None of us were doing anything other than listen to speeches. And if you bothered to read, I've praised the Toronto police in other threads for their handling of previous marches. It's a strange fetish I have - when people bahve badly I call them bad names, and when they are good I call them good names.

And now you've gotten to the point where you want to cause trauma to millions of people because you want them all to be anti-war. And even that logic doesn't make sense.

I have no idea of whether opinion would change if such things were shown. I just think people should be informed.

I've seen the carnage, the full 6-minute long Al Jazeera clip they played. You know what it did to me?

It pissed me off. It made me even more pro-war. I was disgusted that the Iraqis could shoot American soldiers in the forehead, execution style.

Fine. I am also disgusted. I am also disgusted at the grotesque spectacle of civilian casualties. These people had done nothing, they were non-combatants. War is hell - that is why it should be a last resort. And here it plainly isn't.

Perhaps you should think through your position, the gruesome deaths of Americans shown on TV would probably enrage Americans into an even harsher pro-war stance. You'd instill feelings of anger and revenge more than guilt and sadness.

You know - I find it odd that you think that my argument for the press to inform the public so that they can make an informed judgement (whatever that may be) is an argument for anti-war propaganda. It isn't. And you pride yourself on being able to argue - sheesh.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Asher
you underestimate Americans' understanding of what death is.

No. When you live in a country that has never seen its cities burnt to the ground or someone shot dead by the government right in front of your or heard stories of some "Counter-Revolutionary" being killed, you can't quite understand death.

When you havent see someone being raped (I haven't, but I know those who have) because they have another opinion, or houses burning with people in them......You can't understand death.

Most Americans dont have this experience. Most americans dont understand death very well. Even after Sep11.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Asher

3) Children frequently watch TV without parental supervision and could be caused great trauma by being shown the footage

I was quite young when I saw clips of the atrocities and carnage in Vietnam, I dealt with it. Hiding people from the horrors of war deprives them of a full grasp of it's reality.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
I'm supremely indifferent to your opinion of me.

It's telling that you wrote a whole paragraph about how you don't care.

And you pride yourself on being able to argue - sheesh.

Say what?
You're the "philosopher", I've never said anything about my ability to argue.

I speak what's on my mind, I have better things to do to waste years of my life as you have in the trivial fields such as philosophy which find new ways to bicker about sock color.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Willem
I was quite young when I saw clips of the atrocities and carnage in Vietnam, I dealt with it.

Hey, I know people who survived a 14 storey fall. Therefore we can assume that it's safe to do so.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Yeah - the tories who thought he was an ally against the communists.

Hey, genius, Nevile Chamberlain was the head of the Labor government, and Churchill, the major conservative force in the middle of the century, resigned his post over appeasement. Please, get your facts right for once.

Ah my lad, it is you who should be more careful. Appeasement was in large part a product of the British upper class's sympathy for fascism. Of course that is not the whole story, but it is a significant part of it. Ishiguro wrote a novel about this, "The Remains of the Day" (a good read actually). You can also read the contemporary journalism of George Orwell for more information - the defenders of privilege loved Hitler - they saw him as a solid anti Bolshevik. Why do you think figures like Ezra Pound and TS Eliot were fascist sympathisers.

Anyway, have a nice day. My wife has come home and wants to use the computer. So it looks like you get the last word.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Then everyone would start complaining about CNN showing gratuitous violence for no reason (except maybe ratings).

Truth should be a good enough reason.