The Battle of Baghdad

[Kontiki]

Again, I'm not knocking Franks, I'm just saying that I would expect anyone (meaning someone who climbs to the highest ranks of a first-world military) in his position to do just as well. It's pretty easy to react to things well when you have just about every conceivable advantage from the get go, most of which is so heavily skewed in your favor as to be completely rediculous.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel


Am I the only one thinking that this somewhat resembles the German march through the Arc in Paris?

Nah. rumbling through with tanks means you still have to go plated in armor not to get shot. Staging a big huge parade with troops marching by is a much more impressive display of "We beat you". Pus they are going through, not in front.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by LaRusso


truly brilliant commanders = robert e. lee, heinrizi, chuikov. they were given BS and made something out of it

I would include Rommel in there as well.

[TheStinger]

Rommel is completely overated

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by spiritof1202


How is Basrah tactically different from Baghdad?

There's a huge number of differences, from terrain, to avenues of approach, to enemy reinforceability, "center of gravity" within the regime, support of the locals for the regime, etc.

Dan - that's ok, I'll handle it with my usual humility.

[The Mad Monk]

He was undermanned and undersupplied and had to deal with a central command that had no real idea what was going on, and he still managed to make a good show of it.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Again, I'm not knocking Franks, I'm just saying that I would expect anyone (meaning someone who climbs to the highest ranks of a first-world military) in his position to do just as well. It's pretty easy to react to things well when you have just about every conceivable advantage from the get go, most of which is so heavily skewed in your favor as to be completely rediculous.

Hah, Compare Montgomery to Patton. Compare McClellan to Grant.

There are those who take overwhelming superiority and turn it into a draw. McClellan. There are those who take an inferior positon and win by craft. Lee, Rommel, Hannibal. There are those who take overwhelming superioty, like the US over Iraq, and perform way beyond expectations.

Tommy Frank's campaign is already stuff of legend.

[Sten Sture]

All last evening CNN (I know, consider the source) was running a scroll that F-14s (and A-10s) were bombing downtown Baghdad.

F-14s!! Did they drive the KittyHawk up the Tigris??


I'm sure they have the range to do a round trip, but tell me there is almost 0% chance that F-14s are that far north.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
Tommy Frank's campaign is already stuff of legend.

(a) It ain't over yet. Knocking over a third world country disfunctional as a result of twelve years of sanctions and a wacky dictator isn't much of a challenge. It's turning it to a functional country afterwards that's the problem.

This campaign is about as "legendary" as knocking over Grenada or Panama. The whole notion of the Iraqis anytime soon comprising a credible threat to the region or to the US is a joke.

Sten: Yeah, if they refuel, F-14's can easily get up there. They launch light, and refuel shortly after takeoff, then proceed at cruise, top off at the local KC-10 filling station, and then go do their thing.

[Sten Sture]

MtG - but would they be sending F-14s on bombing runs to Baghdad? Seems like round peg/square hole...

They were linking footage of B-1Bs at the time so I assumed they just got a bad ID.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Hah, Compare Montgomery to Patton. Compare McClellan to Grant.

There are those who take overwhelming superioty and turn into a draw. There are those who take an inferior positon and win by craft. Lee, Rommel, Hannibal. There are those who take overwhelming superioty, like the US over Iraq, and perform way beyond expectations.

Tommy Frank's campaign is already stuff of legend.

Maybe at the Frank's holiday home..but out here in the real world, it is not. In the Gulf War the US army performed way beyond expectations, and today what people remember is the cool bomb footage.

Had the RG put up a fight then we would not be here with someone calling Frank's attack brilliant..if it was airstrikes that broke the Rg then its the guy who put otgether the airwar that should get kudos, but the fact is that someone does not become "legendary" becuase the enemy turned out to be weaker than anyone expected.

[Alexander's Horse]

Oh come on - this isn't brilliant. You get no laurels for defeating a third rate enemy.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sten Sture
MtG - but would they be sending F-14s on bombing runs to Baghdad? Seems like round peg/square hole...

They were linking footage of B-1Bs at the time so I assumed they just got a bad ID.

Sten - welcome to the Pentagon, and everyone has to get in on the action, so they individually and their units will get credit for combat.

We jumped lots of troops in Panama that we could have just landed. A lot of the FUBARs in Grenada were a result of interservice BS, in both directions.

The USMC was operating in reinforced regimental force in Nasiriyah, but we had to use USAF air commandos and spec ops people, we had to have the Marines make their diversion, and make sure Rangers, Special Forces and SEALs each had their role to play. Tactical or operational necessity? Hell no, but a live POW rescue is the biggest thing since Son Tay, so all the SOCOM operators had to get a little piece of that action.

[Alexander's Horse]

"we"? somtimes you sound like you're directing ops

[grumbler]

Originally posted by obiwan18
GRUMBLER

Don't use a quote box in your sig.

It's much easier if you just use quotation marks.

Sorry. The system must have added those quote marks in the.. what.. eighteen months since I lasy posted here?

Fixed, now, though. Thanks for the tip!