Bush Speech Thread

[Ned]

Alright, ThePlagueRat, what "military operations" throughout the world over the last 50 years have caused such anger. All I can think of are the following:

Korea (1950)(Defend SK against communist aggression)
Lebanon (1958) (restore order)
Vietnam (1962-1973)(Defend South Vietnam against communist aggression)
Dominican Republic (1966) (restore order)
Lebanon (1982) (peacekeeping)
Grenada (1984?) (Restore order)
Gulf War (1991) (defend Kuwait against Saddam's aggression)
Somalia (1993) (peacekeeping)
Bosnia (1996?) (Stop war)
Haiti (1997?) (Restore order)
Kosovo (1998?) (Stop genocide)

Have I missed anything?

These are grotesque?

This is a legacy that inspires hate?

Unbelievable!

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre

Do you mean that you actually believed every word Bush said? Iraq/Al-Queda links and all?

I for one believe very little that any politician says. But the alternative that you tacitly suggest is that Saddam is believable and both Bush and secretary Powell are liers. There is no evidence that I am aware of that sugests that Colin Powel is anything but a man of integrity. Do you believe Saddam over his word?

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre



Did I say that? Apolytoners don't frequently belong to above mentioned category. However, millions of the addressees of Bush's speech do.

You are living in a fantasy. Bill Clinton and company liked to refer to their opponants as "trailer park trash". Do you believe everything that convicted liar told you? I thought you socialists loved the poor? Or are you too "educated" to lower yourself to their level? We call people of your ilk here in the South -- oh never mind, you wouldn't get it...

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Sinapus
Re: trailer-park trash


Ah, ethnic slurs. Nice of you to dehumanize your opponents to prove your superiority.

My opponents are not the TPT because they are rarely here on Apolyton. My opponents are you educated people who can think of your own and don't let your politicians do the thinking for you.

News broadcasts and of course political speaches (duh) are more or less biased so you have to try too look behind the screen to understand what's really going on.

Journalists go to the trailer park or more frequently to the shopping mall and ask the man in the street, and surely they will find a lot of morons who reply "Nuke the bastards!" without really thinking what they just said. Similar to those Palestinians who were celebrating in the refugee camp after 9/11. We have to think twice to make an opinion if they just picked out the 5 morons they met in a whole day or if all "TPT" thinks like that.

Sorry if I don't reply soon again. I have a meeting at my job in six hours from now and I have to get some sleep before that.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
Alright, ThePlagueRat, what "military operations" throughout the world over the last 50 years have caused such anger. All I can think of are the following:

Korea (1950)(Defend SK against communist aggression)
Lebanon (1958) (restore order)
Vietnam (1962-1973)(Defend South Vietnam against communist aggression)
Dominican Republic (1966) (restore order)
Lebanon (1982) (peacekeeping)
Grenada (1984?) (Restore order)
Gulf War (1991) (defend Kuwait against Saddam's aggression)
Somalia (1993) (peacekeeping)
Bosnia (1996?) (Stop war)
Haiti (1997?) (Restore order)
Kosovo (1998?) (Stop genocide)

Have I missed anything?

These are grotesque?

This is a legacy that inspires hate?

Unbelievable!

(Restore order)



In other words, get rid of the guy you don't like.

You forgot your bombing of Guatemala in 1954. Must have been restoring order and democracy. Wait. They had order and democracy prior to the bombing, but not for the next 40 years afterwards.

And what about the Bay of Pigs? Or bombing Libya? Or ****ing up half a dozen SE Asian countries in an undeclared war peripheral to Viet Nam so badly that they're still recovering?

Or bankrolling dozens of terrorist organisations in South America? Mining harbours in Nicaragua?

Need I go on?

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Lincoln

I thought you socialists loved the poor?

What makes you think I'm a socialist? I have voted conservative all my life. I have been taking the US side in all wars until now.

But it is too obvious that this war is more about uniting the American people against a common enemy to win the next election. The whole world agree that Saddam is a local catastrophy, but he has never been a treath to United States.

[ThePlagueRat]

You didn't mention all the CIA operations and the funding of the 'Contras' slaughter-milita in Latin american, the coup of Allende and the insertion of dicator Pinochet, it all had US support.

Did I forget to mention CIA training of Osama and their support for Israel. (1950 and 1980 massacres of Palestinians were cleverly covered up and dodged) US involvement with Israel is probably what caused the most hatred in the middle east.

If they helped the Palestinian building a state instead of funding
war criminals like Sharon, USA could have a far better position today as a peacekeeper.

Ned mentioned some wars...
Kosovo was a NATO operation and it had a UN mandate, which naturally involved USA, and the Korea war had a UN mandate I guess. (but it was a long time ago, and I was not born then)
UN approved the Gulfwar1, and that was NATO operation with a US overweight of troops. Ok, today the situation is different.


I might serve as a soldier for NATO myself one day.
And then I don't want to get sacrificed for dirty rotten US foreign politicians. Could be about time to cancel this 'alliance' ?!

So it is an important issue for us, since we are in NATO.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Lincoln


I for one believe very little that any politician says. But the alternative that you tacitly suggest is that Saddam is believable and both Bush and secretary Powell are liers. There is no evidence that I am aware of that sugests that Colin Powel is anything but a man of integrity. Do you believe Saddam over his word?

"If you are not with us, you are against us", huh?

Powell is a loyal politican who will do what his boss tells him. He has integrity allright, but not enough to risk his job by expressing a second opinion in public. Nobody believes Saddam, that is something we can agree on.

[Lincoln]

So you think he has integrity but he is a liar? He made his statements before the UN. Did he lie to the world because he is loyal to Bush while also being a liar?

[Ming]

ThePlagueRat... You better TONE IT DOWN. Nobody has a problem with you saying your opinions, but I have a problem when the venom is dripping from your lips as you try to insite a flame war...

So chill... or be chilled... there will be no additional warnings.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre


What makes you think I'm a socialist?

Sorry I saw that you were from Sweden.

[Lincoln]

I think you've got him wrong Sava. You may remember he was very outspoken against Bush. He saw the evidence that we don't see. He was converted by the facts. He is no one's fool.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Lincoln
So you think he has integrity but he is a liar? He made his statements before the UN. Did he lie to the world because he is loyal to Bush while also being a liar?

What would be his options? To resign?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Lincoln
I think you've got him wrong Sava. You may remember he was very outspoken against Bush. He saw the evidence that we don't see. He was converted by the facts. He is no one's patsy.

Lincolns post is refering to a deleted post by Sava..

And the next time I see that kind of post from you Sava... you WILL be sitting out this war.

You got that!

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ming

venom is dripping from your lips as you try to insite a flame war...