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  • Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
      You didn't mention all the CIA operations and the funding of the 'Contras' slaughter-milita in Latin american, the coup of Allende and the insertion of dicator Pinochet, it all had US support.

      Did I forget to mention CIA training of Osama and their support for Israel. (1950 and 1980 massacres of Palestinians were cleverly covered up and dodged) US involvement with Israel is probably what caused the most hatred in the middle east.
      ThePlagueRat, I only mentioned the military wars and interventions because that is what you talked about in your post. What the CIA did is not military, in my view.

      On the military side, you seemed to approve of American actions.

      As to the CIA, I am not sure how much the CIA participated in various civil wars throughout the world. However, I sincerely doubt the CIA was directly involved in attrocities. - This may be propaganda.

      It is also the subject of the current movie, The Quiet American. You can check out a thread on that movie here in this forum. But the thesis of that movie is that the CIA arranged a major car bombing in Saigon in '52 in order to blame it on the communists. The problem with this "theory" is that the guy that actually did it admitted to doing it. This was a thug named The that allegedly was being financed by the CIA. Why would the CIA arrange for a carbombing to blame in the communists if the guy who did it wanted to take public credit?
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ned


        What do you mean, "sponsor?"
        The history of United States throughout the twentieth century shows that the United States has propped up dictatorships during the Cold War as part of the ideological war against communism.

        United States was definitely not promoting democracy.
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ned
          This was a thug named The that allegedly was being financed by the CIA. Why would the CIA arrange for a carbombing to blame in the communists if the guy who did it wanted to take public credit?
          Maybe he was a double agent sold to the communists and betraying his CIA employers. Or maybe he simply admitted it much later, when the attack had made its effect ?
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MrFun


            The history of United States throughout the twentieth century shows that the United States has propped up dictatorships during the Cold War as part of the ideological war against communism.

            United States was definitely not promoting democracy.
            Mr. Fun, you cannot seriously be against the basic principle that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend." After all, we allied with Stalin, Mao and Chang, all in their own way despicable, to defeat a larger menace. Surely you understand this from the WWII context?

            Americans are sometime sickened by the company we have to keep. So sickened that in 1975, Senator Church lead the charge to forbid the CIA from using unsavory characters for intelligence. All this did was lead to 9/11 due to lack of human intelligence. In retrospect, what Church did harmed United States.

            I don't know what would happen in the world had we not conducted our foreign-policy the way we did. But the fear at the time was that the Communists would take over the entire world and kill us. An overly particular foreign-policy with respect to allies surely would have contributed to a Communist victory.

            But simply saying that we supported unsavory characters without placing it fully in context is unfair. But the left could care less about being fair when it comes to United States.
            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MrFun

              The history of United States throughout the twentieth century shows that the United States has propped up dictatorships during the Cold War as part of the ideological war against communism.

              United States was definitely not promoting democracy.
              Yes they did prop up anti-commie dictatorships. No they weren't promoting democracy.
              They did this because they felt it necessary, not because they wanted to nor because they liked the regimes involved.
              Now they don't need to do this any longer and can do something about them, particularly given the incentive.

              Comment


              • I think the behaviour Bush Administration - Europe
                and Bush Administration - Irak
                is almost similar to the behaviour of Athen shortly before the Peloponesian War

                Bush Administration/Athen - Europe/Attischer Seebund (sry but I don't know it's translation perhaps Attic Alliance)
                Bush Administration/Athen - Irak/Sparta

                We have the situation that THE MOST POWERFULL democracy of the world wants to fight a war against Irak. But in my point of view Bush's main intention isn't to establish democracy rather than to establish a global domination of the USA. Don't understand me wrong an US domination is MUCH better than a Irak domination but if you dominate the world and there is no real opposition even a democracy can show a evil beviour.
                (like the democratic Athen which exploit it's allys)

                Russland, Russland über alles !
                Für Gott, Zar und Vaterland !
                Attached Files
                "Et deus dixit fiat lux !"
                "Everything is proceeding as i have foreseen."
                "I love Democracy Ilove the Republic ..."

                Comment


                • Iz kakoj dyry ty pojavilsa?

                  Translation, to appease the mods: Out of what hole did you appear?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NikolajRomanov
                    Russland, Russland über alles !
                    Für Gott, Zar und Vaterland !
                    If you want to praise mother Russia, at least select a Czar that was not a total loser. Peter the Great would be a better choice.

                    Comment


                    • Vse my pojavilis' iz odnoj i toi zhe 'dyry'.

                      To alll those who do not understand: "All we are from the same 'hole' "

                      P.S: I'm not vulgar, it's hole in Ming's banning system
                      money sqrt evil;
                      My literacy level are appalling.

                      Comment


                      • No offense intended, it's just very amusing to see that offspring of Czarism under a German flag, using past German slogans. Makes me think what we have caught along with Perestroika and Glasnost. Oh well, may be he's just a ... I mean somebody I shouldn't feed .

                        Comment


                        • Who was it that brought up the Peloponesian wars on another thread in relation to the current political situation? It could be a coincidence I suppose, but one wonders.
                          We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                          If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                          Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

                          Comment


                          • @ Sir Ralph: It was intended to be a little bit funny

                            I like (more or less) funny combinations
                            My Palpatine[GE] acc @Starcraft is described with :
                            Imperator Palpatine sagt: "Wenn dir jemand auf die linke Wange schlägt halte auch die rechte hinn"
                            A free translation is:
                            Palpatine says: If you are hurt by anyone don't hurt him back.


                            @ Lord Merciless

                            If you want to praise mother Russia, at least select a Czar that was not a total loser. Peter the Great would be a better choice.
                            In fact he was a political looser but I like him because of his personal qualitys. I recommend you to read more about the person Nikolaj II. rather than about the politician (no offend against you in my opinion he was a overall looser to until I have read more about himself)
                            If I had to choose a Czar who was (more or less) politicaly successfull I would choose Alexander II.

                            LONG LIVES THE CZAR
                            Pro Patria et Gloria
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by NikolajRomanov; March 19, 2003, 08:43.
                            "Et deus dixit fiat lux !"
                            "Everything is proceeding as i have foreseen."
                            "I love Democracy Ilove the Republic ..."

                            Comment


                            • Well welcome to Apolyton comrad Nikolaj! We can use a different point of view here. The same old arguments become rather boring after a while.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MrFun


                                The history of United States throughout the twentieth century shows that the United States has propped up dictatorships during the Cold War as part of the ideological war against communism.

                                United States was definitely not promoting democracy.

                                Oh good. We were running low on malcontents.
                                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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