Whatever happened to free speech?

[Ming]

Oh... so radio station can't run their businesses as they want...

They are promoting themselves... they see what the listeners want, and deliver it. They are in business to make money. PERIOD. They have the "decency" to provide value to their stockholders and give their listening audience what they want.

But no... you want them to LOSE MONEY just so musicians don't lose money.

Double Standard... AGAIN.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Ming
Double Standard... AGAIN.

It's the same double standard as last post. We've just heard it 17+ times.

[Flubber]

Willem

Lets take the flip side-- Do you accept that individual consumers, djs and radio station owners each have the individual right to purchase or play music as they choose? Do they not also have the right to try to convince others to join in some form of expression of political opinion??

This is something you have to live with in a free society. If a store owner in a small town expressed an extremely unpopular opinion ( blatantly racist for instance) he could lose his business if enough people are disgusted enough and boycott his products. The dixie chicks thing is the same . . . and the character or nature of an opinion is irrelevant . . .

You might think its Mccarthyism and the suppression of unpopular opinion BUT what is your solution? Lets say I personally hate what the Dixie chicks said and want to express my digust. Should I not be free to do so ?? On what basis do you stop me? Is my opinion less worthy of expression that the Dixie Chicks??

Willem you seem to be ignoring the rights of others in your disgust at the boycott. IMHO even if you hate the boycott you have to respect the people's right to do it . . . and be happy to be in a country where such freedom is possible

[Imran Siddiqui]

So by trying to speak out against a war that they don't believe in, the Dixie Chicks are now at the same level as Hitler? Now that's tolerance!

It's in effect the same thing. They are saying something that the majority does not agree with and finds objectionable.

Funny seeing someone speak about tolerance when wishing to deny a group free speech (the KKK).

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ming

They are promoting themselves...

So this is how they're promoting themselves?

"In Kansas City, Missouri, WDAF-AM set trash cans outside its offices for listeners to toss their Dixie Chicks CDs." CNN

Or is that just pandering to the lowest common denominator?

[Ming]

He doesn't seem to care that some radio station general manager who has four kids in college might lose his job because ratings are good... or that some radio time salesman who is falling behind his mortgage payments might get fired because people aren't buying time on the station... Or that maybe the receptionist at the radio station will have to be fired because of budget cuts...

But he does seem to care that some wealthy band may lose a few bucks, and have to buy their own recording company to publish their next CD...

What's wrong with this picture

[Ming]

Originally posted by Willem
"In Kansas City, Missouri, WDAF-AM set trash cans outside its offices for listeners to toss their Dixie Chicks CDs." CNN

Gee... sounds like a damn good promotion to me. I'll bet they provide a daily count on the air... And I'll bet people are cheering... AND LISTENING TO THE RADIO STATION.

In the advertising business, we call that smart.
And it's not even costing them anything... simply brilliant. Probably more effective than all the paid advertising they are doing...

I'll have to remember to include that in my examples when I lecture at the next University I'm asked to speak at. I lecture about MEDIA around the country... I'm considered an expert

[Shi Huangdi]

Ming is correct, this isn't a violation of free speech, it is about making money in the business. If say, a black rapper were to come out and say that Affirmative Action was bad and the problems of African Americans are their own fault, they might experience a similar reaction.

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by Ming
Gee... sounds like a damn good promotion to me. I'll bet they provide a daily count on the air... And I'll bet people are cheering... AND LISTENING TO THE RADIO STATION.
In the advertising business, we call that smart.
And it's not even costing them anything... simply brilliant. Probably more effective than all the paid advertising they are doing...

And I bet they never expected someone like Willem to be giving them free public announcements online for their radio station's promotion (with location & station name)... then again, maybe they did. Not to mention the free publicity CNN gave them for it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Flubber
If a store owner in a small town expressed an extremely unpopular opinion ( blatantly racist for instance) he could lose his business if enough people are disgusted enough and boycott his products. The dixie chicks thing is the same . . . and the character or nature of an opinion is irrelevant . . .

The store owner is not in the business of dessimating information and culture, a radio station is. Maybe I've been watching the CBC to long, but I feel that those in the media business have a responsibility, especially at this moment in time, to act in a responsible and non-partisan manner so that everyone has the opportunity of hearing both sides of the issue.

By immediately caving in to a small group of vocal critics, they've abrogated that responsibilty. As has been mentioned by someone else on this thread, they're pulling songs because of the complaints of a few hundred people, with a listener base of several thousand. I don't believe that's the way a public broadcaster should act, especially with an issue like war. It's a serious matter and debate should be encouraged, not silenced.

[Ming]

Getting covered on CNN... simply priceless...

Beyond their wildest dreams...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ming


In the advertising business, we call that smart.

I call that sleezy. Let me know what radio stations you sell that idea to, I'll be sure to boycott them. That's my right isn't it?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Willem
By immediately caving in to a small group of vocal critics, they've abrogated that responsibilty. As has been mentioned by someone else on this thread, they're pulling songs because of the complaints of a few hundred people, with a listener base of several thousand.

First... their "responsibility" is to their shareholders, owners, and listeners...

Second... the numbers mentioned by someone else were simply "made up" with no proof given.. while they may be true, they may also not be true. If people are throwing cd's in garbage cans, it's probably MORE than a few hundred people...

Third... even using the non proven example... we are talking about possibly 5 to 10 % of a stations audience.
The difference in terms of profit with even a 5% loss of audience will put people out of work. And do you think it's going to put the band of of work?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Willem
I call that sleezy. Let me know what radio stations you sell that idea to, I'll be sure to boycott them. That's my right isn't it?

Radio stations have done far sleezier promotions than that... And they worked Remember, radio stations are allowed to make money too, not just musicians.

Oh... and when you can find even a few hundred people to go along with your boycott, I bet the radio station will listen to you as well... Fair is fair...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ming
Second... the numbers mentioned by someone else were simply "made up" with no proof given..

The article mentioned that one station pulled their songs after only 250 complaints.

The difference in terms of profit with even a 5% loss of audience will put people out of work. And do you think it's going to put the band of of work?

Sometimes people have to suffer because of principles. And I'd say that freedom of expression is a pretty important principle to suffer for.