Whatever happened to free speech?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ming

I don't see tar or feathers...

That's called a metaphor Ming.

I see some people taking heat for their views.

And I see some people over-reacting.

or are you trying to say musicians should get special treatment.

Of course not! I don't even buy into this idol thing. That just feeds someone's overblown ego.

And again... even a minority can cost a radio station money. And they aren't in business to LOSE MONEY.
If that's what their listeners want, they will deliver...

Again, maybe that's the difference of the Canadian way of doing things and the American. We expect our media organizations to be fair and unbiased, and we generally don't engage in protests against our artists. We either accept what they do or not, we don't get hysterical if they suddenly speak their mind.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ozz
Same as cable companies have to provide a local community channel if they want a licence.

Not anymore. I volunteered at one a couple of years ago and that's no longer a requirement. In fact, the one here is becoming more and more like a regular station, commercials and all.

[Ming]

Well quite obviously they are, that's very plain to see. But does that justify such an over-reaction? Does that not embarass you in any way? And I'm not refering to you here as an American, but as the sane human being that you seem to be.

No... it doesn't embarass me.

Again, you seem to think that musicians should be treated differently than normal people. In a VERY PUBLIC FORUM, they stated their political views... and all the fans did, was to do the same thing... and since they don't have microphones stuck in their face regularly, they made there own public forum to express THEIR views.

There were just expressing THEIR right of free speech.

I'm damn glad that they do have that right, and that they took advantage of it to tell somebody who they had been giving their hard earned money to, that they disagree with them. People in the US have been boycotting products for a long time... this is no different.

Or again... do you believe the musicians should have more rights than their fans?

[Pyrodrew]

Is that why Canadian radio stations took Howard Stern off the air after "a regular flow of letters to the editor and the promised threat of an extensive boycott towards the advertisers on CHOM FM."?

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2796/news.html

And I didn't even have to look hard to find this. Willem, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Imran Siddiqui]

We expect our media organizations to be fair and unbiased,

And do you actually believe that they are?

As for burning of CDs, do you consider it a threat to free speech when a group of people organize to burn the flag? Should we ban burning the flag then?

And opposition to the war is NOT different than opposing racial integration or supporting racial integration or backing free medical care for all or supporting lower taxes.... ALL are speech. All can get backlash.

Your constant assertion that the KKK's protest isn't at the same level of say opposition to the war or support for the war indicates to me that for all your talk of free speech, you believe that some groups (KKK) shouldn't have that right because they are not the same good for us speech as war protestors.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ming

Or again... do you believe the musicians should have more rights than their fans?

Did the Dixie Chicks go to the workplaces of their fans and try to get them fired?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Pyrodrew
Is that why Canadian radio stations took Howard Stern off the air after "a regular flow of letters to the editor and the promised threat of an extensive boycott towards the advertisers on CHOM FM."?

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2796/news.html

And I didn't even have to look hard to find this. Willem, you have no idea what you're talking about.

And I suspect that will be pretty much the only example you'll ever find.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Willem
That's called a metaphor Ming.

Oh... they can express their opinions, and NOT accept the consequences... Special treatment for musicians?

And I see some people over-reacting.

Just expressing their opinions too... They don't have the advantage of the media to get theirs across... What they did just evened things up.

Of course not! I don't even buy into this idol thing. That just feeds someone's overblown ego.

Yet everything you have posted says differently. Musicians should be allowed to express themselves without any consequences... But their fans can't express themselves...

Kind of a double standard if you ask me...

Again, maybe that's the difference of the Canadian way of doing things and the American. We expect our media organizations to be fair and unbiased, and we generally don't engage in protests against our artists. We either accept what they do or not, we don't get hysterical if they suddenly speak their mind.

I expect business to try to make a profit. Especially if I invest in them. And please explain how they are not being fair and biased. Their LISTENERS... you know, their customers, don't want to hear it... so they don't play it. They are being fair to their customers... and supporting the advertisers that pay big bucks to reach their customers. To do anything different would be WRONG.

In America, if we don't like something, we stop supporting it by voting with our product.

But again, you seem to be looking for SPECIAL treatment for artists. In america, we think the fans deserve the SAME treatment

[Imran Siddiqui]

Did the Dixie Chicks go to the workplaces of their fans and try to get them fired?

Did the fans of the Dixie Chicks go to the record company and try to get them fired?

[Pyrodrew]

And I suspect that will be pretty much the only example you'll ever find.

Much like the DixieChic was the only example you found.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Willem
Did the Dixie Chicks go to the workplaces of their fans and try to get them fired?

Uhhh... can they still perform... can they still produce CD's... can they still write music.

Yes, Yes, Yes...
They may make less money, but as you said, that's not the real point, because they STILL HAVE THEIR ART.

So, your point besides artists deserve special treatment, and their fans don't?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by ixnay
I'm willing to bet that 90% of these people that are boycotting the Dixie Chicks really couldn't care less what they said and are just doing it because everyone else is. The radio stations that are boycotting them are likely just doing it in an attempt for free publicity rather than out of outrage at what they said.

You just took cynicism to a new level.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Willem

Which is exactly what happened! Yet you've been saying that it's perfectly alright. Which is it, or are you content to just sit on the fence?

Note that I said unless they really are villains. I don't believe that they are and have no interest in helping the campaign against them. But I have to also understand that there are people who do feel this way, and are acting in what they see as a righteous fury against the Chicks. Ethically I have to support their rights even when I disagree with their conclusions.

Originally posted by Willem

Some valid points there. I don't know very much about the Dixie Chicks music, but I don't get the impression they've ever come across as a political band before. But I still don't feel they deserve the obvious hatred that's being expressed, simply for speaking their minds.

Neither do the vast majority feel that the Chicks deserve this. I imagine that a lot of the vitriol is based upon the fear that this war will become like Vietnam politically, and that the soldiers are going to end up being the ones who are screwed. Since the Dixie Chicks fan base will tend to have a much higher number of relatives who are soldiers, this is probably seen by some of them as a betrayal.

Originally posted by Willem
FYI, I remember their first concert in America on the Ed Sullivan show. I'm hardly a "whippersnapper", I've been around the block a few times now.

My mistake, fellow oldtimer.

Originally posted by Willem
Worried is one thing, to actively organize a vendetta against those girls is something else entirely. Even if it is just a publicity stunt, it's a very nasty thing to do to a group that they had supported and profited by up until just recently

They'll get theirs in all probability. This thing seems destined to run out of steam quickly, and these same stations are not going to be seeing the Dixie Chicks sitting in on their morning show or the like again. They are not powerless victims here.

Originally posted by Willem

Well quite obviously they are, that's very plain to see. But does that justify such an over-reaction? Does that not embarass you in any way? And I'm not refering to you here as an American, but as the sane human being that you seem to be.

It doesn't embarass me much, I have enough reason to be embarassed in my personal life that I don't have to read the papers looking for idiots to identify with. Believe me, I see worse than this all the time.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And do you actually believe that they are?

Within a reasonable degree yes. In fact we have regulations to ensure that they are. There's always going to be some leaning towards one side of the spectrum or the other, but only to a certain degree. And our public system has a strong reputation for showing all sides of an issue; it's part of their mandate.

Should we ban burning the flag then?

A flag is a public symbol. To ban flag burning would be an infringement.

Your constant assertion that the KKK's protest isn't at the same level of say opposition to the war or support for the war indicates to me that for all your talk of free speech, you believe that some groups (KKK) shouldn't have that right because they are not the same good for us speech as war protestors.

The views of groups like the KKK infringe upon the rights and freedoms of other people, so no they shouldn't have that right.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Willem We have to impose quotas if we hope to have any sort of independant music scene of our own. Otherwise we'd get drowned by out by the stuff coming up from down south.

That's because you have crap music like Avril, Sheryl, Nickelback, Sum 41, and Shania.