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  • Queensland Reds 35 -d- Waratahs 23

    The Queensland jinx continues for the Waratahs. They have never beaten the Reds in the S12 competition. And this time they contrived to lose to a Reds team that had, prior to this match, looked third-rate in losing its every match. Yet again, the Reds lifted themselves for the traditional grudge match. Why can't they do it against other teams?

    Overall, a fairly ordinary match in terms of skill levels, with the Waratahs missing far too many tackles, coughing up too much ball, and never looking like they had an attack plan. Chris Latham, who could see out of only one eye prior to the match thanks to a heavy knock last week, and whose other eye was closed after a heavy knock in this match, played a scorcher for the Reds. From full back, he controlled the defence, cleaning up any Waratah attack that got past the 22, before he slotted into the attacking line and drove forward.

    On the downside, yet another bizarre decision by a ref. The Waratahs, for the second time in a row, were driving for the line from 20 metres out. For the second time, the maul was pulled down by a Reds player. A similar thing had happened earlier. The Waratahs weren't close to scoring, but the ref awarded a penalty try on the basis that it was the third time the Reds had pulled down a maul. A penalty try, as we all know, is awarded when a try would have been scored in all probability. In this scenario, a try was a possibility and nothing more. The correct decision would have been to yellow- or red-card the offender.

    Oh, and yet again, penalties were awarded - and reprimands handed out - for players doing little more than pushing each other. After the ridiculous yellow cards handed out this weekend and last weekend, it's plainly obvious that, along with all the other IRB directives, there's a policy to crack down on anything resembling physical altercations. Where will these directives stop?

    I really worry about the Australian S12 teams this season. The Brumbies looked second-rate against the Blues on Friday, the Reds still sit at the bottom of the ladder, and the Waratahs continue to mix the abysmal with the very good. I can easily see a S12 finals series without an Australian team.
    Last edited by finbar; March 29, 2003, 20:41.
    " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
    "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
      We played considerably well against the number 1 NCAA Div 3 team in the country. They only scored once in the first half and only once while I was in. We held them considerably well.
      What school do you got to, just out of curiousity?

      Comment


      • What's this? Two of you? Is this a takeover!?



        Oh, and I forgot to add, in regard to a certain event tonight -

        *coughs and clears throat*

        Bore it up 'em, Paddys, till their noses bleed!

        " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
        "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

        Comment


        • Tamerlin - are you now in daylight savings mode? If so, and you're still available for Civ 2 activities from 13:00 Monday your time, that means 21:00 my time. An earlier start for me than last time.

          I just tuned in to the BBC broadcast of Ireland -v- England. Ireland are down 6-13 with about 20 minutes to go.
          " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
          "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

          Comment


          • Quick post, more tonight:

            Ireland 6 - England 42

            And yes, I am available tomorrow at 13:00 french time...
            "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

            Comment


            • My comments on this last day of Tournament:
              Scotland - Italy: The most disputed match. Italy didn't win, but they showed they were almost there and they are at the same level as Scotland. They clearly deserve to be part of the 6 nations. Scotland won but not by much,and the game was entertaining.
              France - Wales: The first minutes of the game were frightening. I had played as blue against a red team on the same morning and the blues (us) had been beaten by the reds so it didn't bode well. Afterwards, France played mildly in the first half, then played correctly in the second half. Castaignede and Garbajosa were particularly good. Clerc proved IMO that he is a better choice in the starting XV than Rougerie. So bad France is so erratic. Wales only proved it is at its lowest.
              Ireland - England: Ireland wasn't up to the task. Their match against Wales showed they had problems versus a weak team, and England had bashed the Scots that week. The score is a little large considering the game (one try could have been avoided by the Paddies), but even a 35-6 would have shown well enough the difference between the teams. I think only Costello was good on the Irish side. Overall, the English used their superior forwards very well, and played intelligently, whereas the Irish were too badly organized to be a menace. Murphy in particular would have been excellent if he had passed the ball once or twice, but the whole team slowly disintegrated under the pressure of the English charges.

              Overall, I think the most dangerous NH teams in the world cup will be (surprise surprise) England, obviously very strong everywhere (great pack, great fly half, some solid backs), and then France. I rank France above Ireland because overall, I think the Paddies are more regular, but they can't raise their level to that of the best teams. France didn't lose by 42 points against England, and they didn't play well that day. Of course, we have an erratic team...

              As for myself, I played a match on the morning of France - Wales. On, the joy of waking up at 6 AM to play rugby! We met a team of relatively old players. When you play hooker, you learn to fear these teams. They have lots of experience, cohesion, and happened to be big and have strong arms. We lost 30-15, and I witnessed from the inside (and the bad side alas) the terribe efficiency of a maul. When I just managed to get your hands on the ball in a maul of theirs, an opponent immediately took it further back, I reached it again, and they took it further back (and got me going the opposite direction in the process)... I managed to make a pass leading to a try and several good throws in lineout, though.
              Clash of Civilization team member
              (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
              web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tamerlin
                Ireland 6 - England 42
                Frankly, I'm more interested in the fate of the Pork Pie.

                And yes, I am available tomorrow at 13:00 french time...
                What are you going to do with Paris when I gift it to you?
                " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LDiCesare
                  Overall, I think the most dangerous NH teams in the world cup will be (surprise surprise) England, obviously very strong everywhere (great pack, great fly half, some solid backs), and then France. I rank France above Ireland because overall, I think the Paddies are more regular, but they can't raise their level to that of the best teams. France didn't lose by 42 points against England, and they didn't play well that day. Of course, we have an erratic team...
                  I didn't get to see any of the matches - which was outrageous! How can FoxSports ignore the 6 Nations! - but your summary sounds accurate. It was typical of the Paddys that they played out of their boots against the Wallabies late last year and then failed ever to repeat the performance.

                  England are obviously more solid and consistent than France. That can, though, arguably, make France a bit more dangerous. If they have a day out, they can probably beat anybody. The downside is the grief suffered in between.

                  The Kiwi S12 teams are all performing very, very well. The Australian S12 teams are under-performing terribly. The skill levels at the moment of some of our best players - all Wallabies - are shocking. Obviously they will improve, and it's a long road to the WRC, but I really do worry.

                  I witnessed from the inside (and the bad side alas) the terribe efficiency of a maul. When I just managed to get your hands on the ball in a maul of theirs, an opponent immediately took it further back, I reached it again, and they took it further back (and got me going the opposite direction in the process)...
                  And were they saying nice things to you as you went past?

                  I managed to make a pass leading to a try and several good throws in lineout, though.
                  Is this the same team in which the club President plays? If so, I hope you threw to him in the lineout.
                  " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                  "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by finbar
                    The Australian S12 teams are under-performing terribly. The skill levels at the moment of some of our best players - all Wallabies - are shocking. Obviously they will improve, and it's a long road to the WRC, but I really do worry.
                    At least you can still say you're better than the South Africans, though the Bulls haven't done too shabby.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bearcat

                      What school do you got to, just out of curiousity?
                      Ursinus College in Pennsylvania
                      "I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
                      ^ The Poly equivalent of:
                      "I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by finbar
                        On the downside, yet another bizarre decision by a ref. The Waratahs, for the second time in a row, were driving for the line from 20 metres out. For the second time, the maul was pulled down by a Reds player. A similar thing had happened earlier. The Waratahs weren't close to scoring, but the ref awarded a penalty try on the basis that it was the third time the Reds had pulled down a maul. A penalty try, as we all know, is awarded when a try would have been scored in all probability. In this scenario, a try was a possibility and nothing more. The correct decision would have been to yellow- or red-card the offender.
                        Although I didn't see the match I have to say I rather like the sound of that referee. Its one thing for the defenders to have a breakdown when the opposition is pressing on the tryline. It can happen. Desperation bringing about desperate measures and all...
                        But when it happens repeatedly and becomes a pattern it needs to be rectified. Penalizing with points on the board, moreso, points that the attackers might otherwise not have gained, seems to me to be the most effective method of doing this. Sending a player off in a rugby match doesn't have nearly the same effect as it does in soccer (for example ). Likewise giving away a 3-point penalty in front of the posts isn't nearly as effective as a penalty shot in that other sport (that won't be named again) which has a 90-odd% probability of scoring.
                        It is hard on the defending team but it's also a lesson well-learned. I'm guessing there wasn't a fourth time...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ravagon


                          Although I didn't see the match I have to say I rather like the sound of that referee. Its one thing for the defenders to have a breakdown when the opposition is pressing on the tryline. It can happen. Desperation bringing about desperate measures and all...
                          But when it happens repeatedly and becomes a pattern it needs to be rectified. Penalizing with points on the board, moreso, points that the attackers might otherwise not have gained, seems to me to be the most effective method of doing this. Sending a player off in a rugby match doesn't have nearly the same effect as it does in soccer (for example ). Likewise giving away a 3-point penalty in front of the posts isn't nearly as effective as a penalty shot in that other sport (that won't be named again) which has a 90-odd% probability of scoring.
                          It is hard on the defending team but it's also a lesson well-learned. I'm guessing there wasn't a fourth time...
                          The point is that a penalty try is what it is - a try awarded when the attacking team would, in all probability - which isn't possibly or might - have scored a try but for the infringement. The Waratahs were nowhere near close enough to the line for it to be judged they would, in all probability, have scored the try. Anything could have happened. The Waratahs could have lost the ball as they'd been doing for most of the game.

                          The ref used the penalty try as an alternative to a red or yellow card and that's not what it's designed for. OTOH, the ref who awarded the penalty try against George Gregan in the Brumbies -v- Blues game got it right. The Blues were, literally, two feet short of the line about to pick and drive, the Brumbies defence was scattered, and Gregan ran around the side to kick the ball away. The Blues would obviously have scored a try without Gregan's interference. Ergo, the penalty try was awarded.

                          A rugby team isn't handicapped playing one man down? Tell that to the teams who concede tries when they're one man down.
                          " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                          "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                          Comment


                          • Sorry, no time for the Rugby Thread this week-end, I will catch up with the thread this afternoon before the CtP2 DG Turn Chat...

                            Finbar, I am ready for the Civ2 online spank...
                            "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

                            Comment


                            • I wonder if there's any chance of retitling this thread before Havak gets back? We could call it Growing Geraniums. He'll be tearing his hair out - well, metaphorically speaking - looking for the rugby thread in which to post and boast.

                              All in favour of retitling the thread between now and tonight?
                              " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                              "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                              Comment


                              • Growing Geraniums?
                                Are you trying to pull Hydey in or something?

                                (Either that or keep him away with a 10 foot pole )

                                Btw I vote yes - although even an ex-prop might well be on the lookout for a prank today.

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