France busts deficit limit

[Dinner]

I'm not sure but I think there was even a WTO ruling that lower taxes were not a subsidy as long as the tax rate is the same for everyone. For example it would be illegal to give a tax break just to exporters of cheese but it would be fine to have a lower tax rate for every company which made cheese.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Produce more in tonnage? (US is first)
Workers are most productive? (US is ahead of EU average but behind France & Luxembourg)

Yes .

I was counting the EU as one economic entity (which may be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that it will deepen to such an extent as to simply be considered one economic system.. a la the Zollverein), but I also did have produce in tonnage in mind as well.

[DuncanK]

The history of agriculture in the United States since the Great Depression has been one of consolidation and increasing efficiency.

Same source

[Velociryx]

So? They're French....do you think they actually *care* what the rest of Europe thinks?

I can hear Chirac now, in response: "this would be a good opportunity for the rest of Europe to shut up."

-=Vel=-

[badman]

I want to take this opportunity to defend my French neighbours
Even if France didn't care they would have lots of company (like the US ).
I don't know a single country in the world that doesn't think of its own business first. *sigh*

[Velociryx]

Hey, I agree with you....national interest comes first, and that's just the way the game is played....which is why the EU is about as good as its going to get....no nation is going to give up its national soveriegnty, especially when Chirac is strutting and crowing around like he's THE voice of the EU.

But....the agreement was signed by all the member states....if they're not gonna live up to it....that says something important, I think, and it sends a strong message to the states waiting in the wings to join.

Perhaps, rather than simply shredding the agreement, France could do a bit to diminish its welfare state to bring the budget back into balance. Political suicide, I know, and nobody wants to give up their gravy, so of course, it won't happen, but it would be the fiscally responsible answer.

-=Vel=-

[el freako]

Originally posted by DuncanK


?

source?

OECD - used OECD in figures 2002 for shares of agriculture in GDP and employment in 2000.
Used latest estimates of GDP at PPPs in 2000 and employment in 2000, France had 101% of US level, Luxembourg had 109% (Denmark had 100%).

[el freako]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
but I also did have produce in tonnage in mind as well.

Want to trade a tonne of oranges for a tonne of wheat?

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by el freako



OECD - used OECD in figures 2002 for shares of agriculture in GDP and employment in 2000.
Used latest estimates of GDP at PPPs in 2000 and employment in 2000, France had 101% of US level, Luxembourg had 109% (Denmark had 100%).

This productivity is measured in compensation per farm worker. I think the price of food is a factor here. I could be wrong though, but isn't food more expensive in France?

[Spiffor]

French Commie Disclaimer : I am a Communist from France, and as such, I oppose my incompetent president about everything except Iraq. My views do not reflect the views of the French people as a whole in any way

Chirac is probably the most terrible president France has ever had under the 5th Republic. He didn't hesitate to betray his people, his country, his European neighbours, and the Global Community.

Chirac's program during April 2002's elections supposed an annual growth of 3% in the period 2002-2007. Of course such a figure belonged to a fantasy world, but nobody dared to rebunk it, because it served every party's interests.
One of the "great" promises of Chirac was to reduce the income tax by 33% in 5 years, starting by a 5% reduction immediately. He didn't promise any reduction of our expanses, of course. At the very same time, he promised to the EU he'll have a 0% deficit in 2007 as per the Stability and Growth Agreement .
As unbelievable as it sounds, he followed this stupid promise, and French income tax was 5% lower.

Also, Chirac has begun to raise the military budget, and the police / justice budget for the sake of fighting against petty crime (big topic during the campaign).

Thus, France has higher expanses, and lower income. More precisely, French 2002 budget was intended to be :

— Income : 233,6 billions €
— Expanses : 266 billions €, including about 70 billions for the military. Highest expenditure was the Public Education.
— Sold : - 30,438 billions €, i.e. 1,4% of deficit. Naturally, the official budget as voted by the Assemblée Nationale thought a 2,75% growth would be realistic

[Spiffor]

Also, please note the welfare system is mostly separated from the State, and isn't paid through taxes like the State's budget. Welfare system is closely linked to emplyedship, and gets most of its resources from "social cotisations" paid by the employer and the employee.

Welfare system redistributes about 20% of the French GNP, and the State redistribute about the same part, for a grand total of ~ 40% of the GNP passing through the administration at some point.

I don't know if EU's evaluations take welfare's deficit into account or not. Currently, the government is trying to reduce any it of "useless" expanse off the welfare system. As such, the government reduces direct transfers to old people helping them being autonomous (State paid), reduces and intends to destroy the free healthcare for the poorest (State paid), and many other despicable things.
In this perspective, the war with Iraq is aa blessing for the government, because nearly everybody supports Chirac on Iraq, and there is almost no struggle against the insensitive and absurd cuts exerted by the gov.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Spiffor
[size=1].
One of the "great" promises of Chirac was to reduce the income tax by 33% in 5 years, starting by a 5% reduction immediately. He didn't promise any reduction of our expanses, of course. At the very same time, he promised to the EU he'll have a 0% deficit in 2007 as per the Stability and Growth Agreement .
As unbelievable as it sounds, he followed this stupid promise, and French income tax was 5% lower.

Also, Chirac has begun to raise the military budget, and the police / justice budget for the sake of fighting against petty crime (big topic during the campaign).

Suprising he hates Bush so much, because their economic policies are so much alike.

[Spiffor]

Bush and Chirac are competing for the award of the biggest moron at the helm of a modern Democracy. You bet they can't bear each other

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Bush and Chirac are competing for the award of the biggest moron at the helm of a modern Democracy. You bet they can't bear each other

I honestly believed that only Americans were stupid enough to believe such crap that doesn't make any sense, and only because our leaders claim it to be true.

[Spiffor]

You know, French and Americans are incredibly similar to each other (the American lack of history notwithstanding).