France busts deficit limit

[KrazyHorse]

Your argument is consistant but wrong. US farmers are the most productive in the world. I don't have a source, but I'm sure you will find out one day.

US farmers get ~62% of their income from subsidies, IIRC. Canadian farmers get ~30%. You just put a tariff on Canadian wheat because your farmers were whining. If that isn't protectionism, I don't know what is.

[Case]

Originally posted by DarthVeda
Chirac and Schroeder sure are awesome leaders...

How many hundreds of billions is the US Budget deficit this year?

[HershOstropoler]

The US is and has been subsidising agriculture to the same extent as the EU. It's just done in different ways, the US hides it subsidies better.

The OECD's total support estimates for the sectors for 2000 are almost the same in absolute numbers (2000: EU 103.5 billion %; US 92.3 billion $), as well as a share of agricultural production (roughly 50 %). The latest subsidy package should easily make the US the worst offender.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/agriculture/external/wto/usfarmbill/qa28.htm

Of course, the myth of the poor american farmers is a given in US media, so one cannot blame people for the misinformation propagated in this thread.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Frogger

Every nation is going to have either large deficits for the whole decade, huge tax increases, or huge spending cuts

Not here. This year we had:

1) A spending increase
2) Pending tax cuts
3) A budget surplus

Yes, your economy is very nice right now. Let's hope it can keep the rest of us afloat

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I thought the Aussies and canadians, matches the US in terms of agriculture. I can't see why the canadians wern't the same in terms of productivity.

I think they are close. I don't think any one area can compare with the San Joaquin Valley in California though.

[Dinner]

Hershey: The absolute numbers are similar but remember that there are easily twice as many farmers in the U.S. as there are in the EU. That means the per capita subsidy is much smaller in the U.S..

[HershOstropoler]

OERDIN, CHECK THE GODDAMN FREAKING LINK!!!!



More than 3 times, just the other way round. I'll make your point for you: EU subsidies per unit of farmland are higher.

[Dinner]

Hmmm, I had always thought it was the other way around. In the U.S. many farmers declare themselves to be a company instead of a family farm do those numbers include family farms which are technically "corporations"? I'm also suspecious of exactly what they've lumped into the "producer support estimate" since it directly controdicts the estimates I saw on CNN and NPR right after the last farm bill was passed.

[HershOstropoler]

Farm is farm for that purpose.

As for estimates, the US government, media and interest groups always tend to ignore the hidden subsidies, especially tax subsidies. Not to mention externalities, which aren't even counted by the OECD total support figures, I think....

[Lawrence of Arabia]

alright its two on one. i guess i gotta give you the statement 'US farmers are the most productive in the world"

For example, the U.S. has only 25,000 cotton growers, but they are prosperous (with an average net worth of $800,000) and thus influential. So the U.S. spends $2 billion a year subsidizing them, and American production of cotton has almost doubled over the last 20 years -- even though the U.S. is an inefficient, high-cost producer. The result is a glut that costs African countries $250 million each year, according to a World Bank study published in February.

ah so imran, these are those small farmers you were talking about huh?


-------
Quote from NY Times 'Farm Subsidies that Kill' Nicholsd D Kristof, 7/5/2002, Late Edition - final, Section A, page 19

[Sandman]

Where do you get that Sikander? BTW even if Sandman doesn't prefers not to admite it there has been a marked increase in anti-semitism in France over the last two years and I would rather try to combat it now while it is small then wait until it possibly becomes much larger. The best time to deal with problems like this is to nip them in the bud and not to ignore them until the become huge problems like some people here have suggested.

I was merely comparing your misleading claim that Jews were leaving France in 'record numbers' to your slightly less spurious claim that France has 'busted' through eurozone deficit limits.

Anti-semitism only comes into the question if you consider the microscopic emigration increase to have been caused by it.

[el freako]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Duncan is right. American farmers (actually American farming businesses) are the most productive in the world. Without a doubt having a higher productivity than non-first world countries.

What do you mean by 'most productive'?

Produce more by value? (US is second to the EU)
Produce more in tonnage? (US is first)
Workers are most productive? (US is ahead of EU average but behind France & Luxembourg)

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by el freako


What do you mean by 'most productive'?

Workers are most productive? (US is ahead of EU average but behind France & Luxembourg)

?

source?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Farm is farm for that purpose.

As for estimates, the US government, media and interest groups always tend to ignore the hidden subsidies, especially tax subsidies. Not to mention externalities, which aren't even counted by the OECD total support figures, I think....

The tax subsidies thing has me a bit confused. I seem to recall a year or two ago when the French were pushing "tax harmonization" in the EU and declaring they wanted to end "unfair British & Dutch tax subsidies". What they were talking about was the British and Dutch had lower tax rates then France (or Germany for that matter) and the French called this a unfair subsidy.

Having lower taxes is not the same as having subsidy. Certain states have hobbled their privite secter with high taxes but that is their fault and they can't blame their troubles on countries which choice to have lower taxes.

[DuncanK]

Since the 1970s high technology farming, including new hybrids for wheat, rice, and other grains, better methods of soil conservation and irrigation, and the growing use of improved fertilizers has led to the production of more food per capita, not only in the United States, but in much of the rest of the world. United States farmers, however, still have the advantage of superior private and government research facilities to produce and perfect new technologies.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpag...2257&para=9#p9

These types of improvements and new biotech improvements are keeping our farmers on top.