Even the realpolitik types have had enough

[Dinner]

Would you really want it to change?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission...

You do, but you don't speak for "America." This "mission" has yet to even be defined. Guess what? If you count Iraq as a war situation, even though the shooting hasn't started yet, and count the 2nd Infantry as tied to deterring the DPRK, we now have active combat deployments for all or a major portion of every single division of the US Army and USMC. Every one of 'em. The friggin' cupboard's bare, and if anything hits the fan anywhere else in the world, or if things deteriorate where we're already deployed, we're running out of reinforcements.

The most undeployed large ground unit in the US is the 25th Inf. (Light) - the good ol' jungle fighting Tropic Lightning. They can reinforce their buddies deployed on "training exercises" in the Phils, but that's about it. We could rotate some of the 10th Mountain back to Afghanistan, to free up the 82nd Airborne, but that's about all we've got. We're going to have an occupation of Iraq for "as long as it takes, but not one day longer." Gee, that's convincing. We're overcommitting and overdeploying, in a war that is not yet essential, that barely has majority support in the US, and has little popular or political support anywhere else in the world.

This guy threw it all away, sure...but maybe he didn't have what it took to begin with. Maybe he went to a euro capitol ready to be influenced by an anti American philosophy...the same philosophy that turns so many...

Get off the high horse. "Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Fuhrer?" - is that your idea of "American philosophy" - blind obedience to authority and refusal to question policy, no matter what?

I guess I'm just sick of it. This guy had a job, that job was to serve America.

His job was to act as a salesman for American policy. He decided he couldn't do that job effectively due to his disagreement with that policy, so he resigned, so that someone else could be appointed who would do that job better. Hell, we'd be a lot better off if we had more people with that degree of honesty and integrity in government, regardless of their ideological leanings. Right now we have people so caught up in their world view that they're unable to comprehend that the rest of the world doesn't see things the same way, or that the rest of the world even matters.

The stupidity of making a remark (by Bush) that "this is a war for the future of the Muslim world" is just astounding. Our enemies couldn't come up with better propaganda if they tried.

America is its people, its people support the president and the invasion of Iraq, this guy activly undermined that...

If one man's opinion can undermine the will or the policy preference of 280 million, that policy is pretty marginal to begin with. If this country, or it's so-called leadership can only function with no questions asked, and no dissent, then we're screwed already.

"Its people support the president" - less and less of them, in fact less than at any time since 9/11/2001. People are beginning to question this President's leadership, and for good reason. Where's OBL? How're things in Afghanistan? How's the economy doing?

I'm just sick of it. I'm angry. I want to serve again.

Soldiers are called upon to obey the lawful orders of their superiors, or the officers appointed above them (depending on whether you work for a living or not. Civilians and government officials are not subject to oaths of obedience to the High Command. Thank God, and our Founding Fathers, for that.

I'd guess many an old legionaire wantef to serve Rome before the fall, watched the decay...hated it. It's moral decay.

Moral decay occurs when you have a political system so sick that marginal or unsound policies can not be questioned or challenged. It's fear of debate or dissent that signifies moral decay, because sound policy choices and a sound political or social environment can tolerate dissent and compromise.

[Ramo]

At first, I thought Shrub and most of his administration were evil, realist-types. Now I realize that it might just be that they're total retards (though still evil, but slightly less so). I mean, what's the use of making these grandiose (yet idiotic) proclamations about occupation, etc. when the lack of them seem to do fine? The media and public certainly don't seem to care.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
This "mission" has yet to even be defined. Guess what? If you count Iraq as a war situation, even though the shooting hasn't started yet, and count the 2nd Infantry as tied to deterring the DPRK, we now have active combat deployments for all or a major portion of every single division of the US Army and USMC. Every one of 'em. The friggin' cupboard's bare, and if anything hits the fan anywhere else in the world, or if things deteriorate where we're already deployed, we're running out of reinforcements.

You do some good thinking.

The above is the main reason why I am not so unhappy about all of this as I might otherwise be.

Though, probably, no one will use the priceless opportunity, but the possibility is there, yes,...

[Jon Miller]

if we need to deploy elsewhere, we will break out the robots

Jon Miller

[Dinner]

More likely we break out (what's left of) the national guard and recall the I.R.R. like we did in Korea.

[Lancer]

Well huh. Let nobody say that I'm easily swayed by unreasonable arguements of the ignorant leftist masses.

However!

When folks like MM and MtG counter my every point with their big rebutts, and Giant_Frigging_Squid! comes down from the mountain to put in his 2 cents after t w o years away...

Hi GS

Weeelll ok. I'm willing to concede that the remote possibility exists that maybe, just maybe, some of the rock solid logic that supports my profound and well stated arguements could be no more than vapors built upon the consumption of a fair portion of a bottle of cheap Chilian red wine.

So, my opinion is now this:

The guy throws his job away, he gets to shoot his mouth off, and then come home.

[Dinner]

Oh, my god! That is the first time I have ever seen this happen on 'poly. Did a person change his stand on an issue due to debate?

Well... I am in shock. Normally people just keep yell at each other until the whole thread degenerates into name calling or it sinks to the bottom of page 2. Lancer, thank you for confirming that 'poly actually does do good in the world; even if only on rare occasions.

[Lincoln]

It's better to resign than to pretend that you believe something you do not. If I served under Clinton I would have had to write a similar letter. The world is full of hypocrites, I assume this guy is not another one. As far as the war goes, the opinions are like *ssholes. Everyone has one...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
recall the I.R.R. like we did in Korea.

What's the I.R.R.?

[Jon Miller]

I think Lancer should be banned

Jon Miller

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ming
It is a matter of the rules... and how the rules are interpreted... And I interpret them... NOT YOU.

[..]

Have a nice day

No wonder they call him, "The Merciless".

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oerdin
More likely we break out (what's left of) the national guard and recall the I.R.R. like we did in Korea.

Which are like tits on a bull in terms of combat effectiveness. Plus we may need them anyway, since we have to rotate forces home at some point.

Simple fact is that for what Bush and the chickenhawks say they want to do, we need more regular Army and Marines - a lot more, like a 50-60% augmentation of current force levels. The ten division Army was sheer insanity - great so long as you didn't have to commit anything anywhere, but years ago (when Clinton was still around), the weenies finally conceded "Win-hold-win" was a stinking pile of horse**** - but Clinton (and now Bush) have kept the same ground force levels. It's a different world, and we need to suck it up and admit we need a force level adequate to deal with that different world. And we need to limit our commitment of forces until we have that force level.

BTW, CT, you need to do some good thinking of your own. If the US got pushed to the wall, and was limited in ground forces, we have other tools in the toolbox. The body counts could get real nasty.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Agathon
No wonder they call him, "The Merciless".

Trickle-down effects of Homeland Security.

[Spiffor]

Yes, he broke 'Poly's rule #1 ! Never change your mind when you have one !