Can we Create an America that can Lead the World

[Az]

He's right about the logic, Duncan.

You are generally right in the discussion though, You just have to know the reasons why.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Faulty logic, Duncan.

IF you say that people get to keep what they work for, then you acknowlege that superior effort (either harder or smarter work) should be rewarded, and IF that is the case, and at the end of my long life, if I CHOOSE to give the fruits of my labor to my children, WHO ARE YOU to tell me I cannot? Did you work for what I created? No! So if I choose to let my children benefit from it, what concern could it possibly be of yours?

-=Vel=-

Sorry Vel. This is just all Bull ****.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by DuncanK


Sorry Vel. This is just all Bull ****.

[DuncanK]

Why is it BS. Because you have gone on and on about how people work to advance in society and you just told me that your son should be in elite class while my son should be in working class because of who their parents were. If you don't see the Bull**** there only your political bias and your dollars are keeping you from seeing reality.

[Az]

Vel, however, it seems that your basis of ethics is different from mine, and Duncan's as well. It is very important to find out in what sort of ethics do you believe.

[Velociryx]

No, Duncan - it is not BS. Explain to me why it would be improper of me to grant my children the fruits of my labor if I wish to. Tell me where the wrong is in that?

I'm not talking about YOUR children. What you choose to do with regards to passing your accumulated wealth to your children is....well....frankly none of my business.

Just as what I choose to do with regards to my wealth and children is none of yours.

What's so hard to understand about that?

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

You see, the problem I have with your arguments is that I am content to leave you in peace. I am content to let you handle your affairs as you wish....but oh no....you want to *dictate* to me, how I can conduct my affairs with my own family.

And THAT is BS!



-=Vel=-
(who will not be dictated to)

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
No, Duncan - it is not BS. Explain to me why it would be improper of me to grant my children the fruits of my labor if I wish to. Tell me where the wrong is in that?

I'm not talking about YOUR children. What you choose to do with regards to passing your accumulated wealth to your children is....well....frankly none of my business.

Just as what I choose to do with regards to my wealth and children is none of yours.

What's so hard to understand about that?

-=Vel=-

How many lines of your decendants should be able to exploit the labor of my decendants? When does it become classism?

Your answer is, its already classism.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
You see, the problem I have with your arguments is that I am content to leave you in peace. I am content to let you handle your affairs as you wish....but oh no....you want to *dictate* to me, how I can conduct my affairs with my own family.

And THAT is BS!



-=Vel=-
(who will not be dictated to)

We live in the same society under the same law. It's not just a matter of minding our own business.

[Japher]

DuncanK and his views on money are so funny.

I too am jealous of those who receive the majority of their wealth, and in fact become worth more than they would have ever been worth, from their parents.

Yet, I wouldn't call it BS, I would call it life... and it isn't fair... boohooo

I for one am for the elimination of inheritence tax, even though all I stand to inherit is worn clock my mom bought at a flea market... yet, the government is going to tax me for it! why? because they are greedy.

Why is it BS. Because you have gone on and on about how people work to advance in society and you just told me that your son should be in elite class while my son should be in working class because of who their parents were. If you don't see the Bull**** there only your political bias and your dollars are keeping you from seeing reality.

Ya know, the rich societies reality is not blinded by politics and money, it is created by politics and money. You need to realize that those who are successful have learned to shape the reality they live in, and have not just except the one they are in, while complaining about it on Poly.

So really, that comment is just utter hourse manure. While I haven't read all the previous post what they are saying is not BS, but could be confused as hypocracy. Yet telling someone that they are off base really doesn't say a whole lot if they feel the same way about yo.

[Velociryx]

Duncan, when are you going to see??!

I assume you are a legal adult, yes?

And since you are a "consenting adult" if you AGREE to an employment contract, X work for Y wage, IT IS NOT EXPLOITATION! You didn't have to agree! Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to agree! The moment you accepted the agreement, it became voluntary. You RENTED your services to another. You chose that path, as opposed to, say, starting up your own business.

And that's your choice to make. That's your business. I don't have to look over your shoulder to see what you're doing or how much you're making...if it happens to be that you negotiated a better deal for yourself than I did, then GOOD FOR YOU!

And in the same breath, don't go looking over MY shoulder to see what I'm doing. It should not matter to you. If I negotiated a better deal for myself, then it means I'm a better negotiator. That's all. It doesn't mean I'm lording it over you, it means I was a better negotiator.

Jesus, I am talking about giving the fruits of MY work to my kids....not talking about stealing your work and giving it to my kids.

All I am saying is if I choose to do that, and you choose not to, then don't come cryin' to me cos my kids get a head start.

It ain't rocket science.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

And by the way, yes we do live in the same society under the same laws, and those laws say NOTHING about your right to dictate to me what I can or cannot do for my kids.

Do they?

But you seem to think that they should. Why? Again, I ask, who are YOU to tell me what I can, or cannot do for my own children? What gives you that authority?

I'm genuinely curious to hear your answer.

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Duncan, when are you going to see??!

I assume you are a legal adult, yes?

And since you are a "consenting adult" if you AGREE to an employment contract, X work for Y wage, IT IS NOT EXPLOITATION! You didn't have to agree! Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to agree! The moment you accepted the agreement, it became voluntary. You RENTED your services to another. You chose that path, as opposed to, say, starting up your own business.

And that's your choice to make. That's your business. I don't have to look over your shoulder to see what you're doing or how much you're making...if it happens to be that you negotiated a better deal for yourself than I did, then GOOD FOR YOU!

And in the same breath, don't go looking over MY shoulder to see what I'm doing. It should not matter to you. If I negotiated a better deal for myself, then it means I'm a better negotiator. That's all. It doesn't mean I'm lording it over you, it means I was a better negotiator.

Jesus, I am talking about giving the fruits of MY work to my kids....not talking about stealing your work and giving it to my kids.

All I am saying is if I choose to do that, and you choose not to, then don't come cryin' to me cos my kids get a head start.

It ain't rocket science.

-=Vel=-

I've already seen all this, and I've already answered all these questions.

Capitalism results in different classes of people. Which class you are born into is largly determined by which class your parents were in. Those are the facts. Deal with it.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And by the way, yes we do live in the same society under the same laws, and those laws say NOTHING about your right to dictate to me what I can or cannot do for my kids.

Do they?

But you seem to think that they should. Why? Again, I ask, who are YOU to tell me what I can, or cannot do for my own children? What gives you that authority?

I'm genuinely curious to hear your answer.

-=Vel=-

First you tell me why your son should be my sons boss?

[Ben Kenobi]

If your disagreeing with me that American society is individualistic,

If you want to just disregard the fact that protestantism teaches individualism that's your choice, but you won't see things clearly until you do so.

-DuncanK

Where does American society come into this? Are you saying that American society = Protestantism?

Secondly, I'll agree with Iron Chancellor. Protestantism may empathise individual faith, this is a far sight from your 'rugged individualism.'

Any halfway decent Protestant pastor will say that faith without works is dead. If you truly love God, you will show your love through your actions and your deeds.

Since you made the claim that Protestantism teaches individualism, can you cite a Biblical quotation that proves your point?