What is the World Prepared to Do to Contain American Aggression?

[chequita guevara]

The first step towards a working democracy are clean election laws and public financing of elections, two things which strike at the heart of libertarian ideals. This is your achillies heel.

[Boris Godunov]

DF, would you be willing to vote for the Democrat if he is opposed to the war and the election is going to be close?

[David Floyd]

orange,

wow...i'm shocked that you would prefer a Green party candidate...

I'd probably take Nader over Bush or Gore.

che,

But the Greens get more votes. Why don't you support Ralph Nader?

Because the LP is larger. But if it came down to it, sure, I'd support the Greens against the Republicans. Not because I like the Greens, but because I want to take down the Republicans and Democrats.

It makes more sense, though, IMO to have a Libertarian candidate - I think he or she would appeal to more Americans overall.

[David Floyd]

The first step towards a working democracy are clean election laws and public financing of elections, two things which strike at the heart of libertarian ideals. This is your achillies heel.

Who said I support democracy? Voting does not equal democracy.

Boris,

DF, would you be willing to vote for the Democrat if he is opposed to the war and the election is going to be close?

Probably not - Dems are too anti-freedom.

[David Floyd]

orange, here's a compromise - a Libertarian candidate who supports reasonable anti-pollution laws. Fair enough?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Because the LP is larger.

Size doesn't matter. The largest political party in US history was the Communist Party of the 1930s, which had more than a million people pass through it in that decade. Membership doesn't equal support. The Democratic and Republican parties together have less than a quarter million dues paying members. Support is what counts, and the Greens have more support than the LP.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Probably not - Dems are too anti-freedom.

So if it's a choice between a Republican you know is going to start a war you oppose and a Democrat you know will not start the war, and that there's no way any other candidate is going to win, you'd rather, in effect, help the Republican? Seems bizarre.

Especially given that this administration has been the most brazenly anti-freedom in memory.

[David Floyd]

Support is what counts, and the Greens have more support than the LP.

Oh, I doubt that. Greens can be easily (admittedly falsely) painted as communists, while most people would call the LP (again incorrectly) right-wing extremists. Which group do you think is gonna get more support in the US?

Boris,

So if it's a choice between a Republican you know is going to start a war you oppose and a Democrat you know will not start the war, and that there's no way any other candidate is going to win, you'd rather, in effect, help the Republican? Seems bizarre.

This is the same argument as the "Would I murder 1 person to stop 10 murders" discussion - I'm not responsible for what other people do, only for behaving morally myself.

[Willem]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


But the Greens get more votes. Why don't you support Ralph Nader?

It was because of Ralph Nader that Bush got elected in the first place. Voting for him split the Democratic vote, and gave Bush a clear field on the right.

[orange]

floyd - as long as he/she wasn't a neo-liberal and had reasonable economic policies (not like your silly no taxes, government financed by lotteries ideas ) I'd definitely support him/her After all, I'm as much a libertarian as I am a leftist.

[raghar]

Simply capture US forces in EU and blocade them. US aren't so millitary strong compare to Rusia and China combined. Captured US forces would do pretty good argument for forthcoming discusion with US.
So war with US isn't totaly out of question, just difficult.

EU and other country could withdraw their money from US and say it is for compensation of war in Iraq damage to their economy. You know oil prices would go up. (Numbers are from few cents down to 160$ per barell)

Then again Europe states could harm US if they would do nothing. If US would be forced to pay all expenses for war in Iraq...

Well world could be without US, but US can't exist without rest of the world as reasonable state. (if they would be banished from rest of the world trade and so, US would degrade quickly)

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
This is the same argument as the "Would I murder 1 person to stop 10 murders" discussion - I'm not responsible for what other people do, only for behaving morally myself.

This is about what may become a practical reality. Given the vehemence with which you've opposed the war on Iraq, I just find it odd that you wouldn't throw your support to the candidate who also opposes it to give him more of a chance of winning, especially based on a generalization of Democrats being anti-freedom. If an "anti-freedom" person is going to win no matter what (Bush or the Dem), wouldn't it make sense to support the Dem who at least won't get us involved in the war?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Willem
It was because of Ralph Nader that Bush got elected in the first place. Voting for him split the Democratic vote, and gave Bush a clear field on the right.

Actually it was Gore's ineptitude and Republican crimes that won the day for Bush. Sure, if Nader hadn't run, then neither of those two factors would have been determinent, but Nader contributed very little to Gore's defeat. The major contributing factor was the Republican government of Florida breaking the law to hand the election over to Bush.

[NeOmega]

I'd vote for a staunch Anti-War Democrat or Republican if they opposed the war unconditionally, with the exception of Iraqi bombers and troop transports crossing the Atlanatic and preparing for an invasion of the U.S.

Right now, besides Al Sharpton, it seems there is only one anti war Democrat..... and he is only an anti-unilateralist, which I cannot accept.

[orange]

Floyd - in a Democracy, wouldn't you doing the 'moral' thing include voting for someone who is against the war? If you don't, how have you acted morally?