USA Patriot Act: The Sequel

[DuncanK]

I've lost all trust that I struggled to maintain earlier in this administration. I would support this war if there were another president.

[DuncanK]

History of unconstitutional laws

There isn't much in the mainstream media about this, but here is something about the history of such laws, including the first Patriot Act

www.truthout.org/docs_02/04.03D.JVB.Patriot.htm

Appearantly these types of laws have been passed as far back as 1798 and always the governent went beyond the intent of the law. The Patriot 2 would be the worst yet though.

[Sava]

If this piece of sh1t passes, I wonder if the Justice Department will work to "exile" members of the KKK (which is an illegal terrorist organization). I'd be curious to see if this happens because I'm sure Republicans wouldn't want to alienate their voting constituency in the South.

[DuncanK]

I'm sure members of the KKK would be included in the definition of terrorist, but I doubt if they go after them.

The way I understand it you could be labeled a terrorist for protesting a war that the US is in by the first Patriot Act. By Patriot Act 2 you could have your citizenship stripped and you could be sent to Guantanamo Bay with the other political prisoners without due process and without the government showing probable cause to any judge.

[Velociryx]

Nahhh, I'm sure they'd rather recruit KKK members to help form up the "Patriot Brigades" they'll no doubt want to send into communities to make sure there are no terrorist groups there.

And Duncan, that's my understanding of the reading as well.

Pretty much, anybody Ashcroft "says" is a terrorist, is a terrorist.

If you meet behind closed doors, you are suspect (no telling what sorts of subversive, anti-american plots you might be cooking up). Thus....wiretapping and survellience without the "hassle" of having to get judicial approval.

If you disagree with the government, how much of a Patriot are you really? And, "you're either with us, or with the terrorists."

Seems they want to make that a reality.

Once again, to the goose-stepping b@stards who proposed this crap, all I can say is c'mon down, y'all.....SC did it once, and we're feisty enough to do it again.

Bring it!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Here are the top "Law" headlines this morning on CNN.com.....interesting. Sad and disgusting, but interesting. Not one peep about the Patriot Act, part deux.

• Harris: Tried to hit SUV, not husband
• Schools risk funding if they bar prayers

And as an aside, for the first time in my life, and a thing I never thought I would react to here in the United States, I heard the sound of a police siren go by the house, and it brought with it a tiny edge of unease.

I wondered where they were going, and found myself questioning their motives (and this, when the document we read last evening isn't even before congress yet).

I do not like that feeling.

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

I had a nightmare last night. I don't remember much, I never do, but I was put in prison. I just remember being afraid of being raped.

[Velociryx]

Today's mission, for me at least, is to write to all the mainstream news sites and ask them why there is no coverage on this issue. Join me in that effort if you feel strongly enough about it. It's something that NEEDS to get brought to light.

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

Ok, I will.

Does anyone know if there is any news on this on TV? I don't get cable.

[DuncanK]

There is something on the CBS website. Good for them.

[Shi Huangdi]

The reason this is bad is not because Al Qaeda supporters don't deserve to be punished- it is that from what it seemed that it would be Ashcroft who determined if you were an Al Qaeda supporter or not, not the courts. If there is a US citizen who is suspected of funding Al Qaeda, then I think they should be arrested, tried before a court of law, and if found guilty thrown in jail. In fact I really don't see why you would let an Al Qaeda funder loose in a foreign country where they might be able to help their cells abroad. But if the government really thought exile was the best punishment for those people- I guess that'd be ok so long as they were tried first. What I have a problem with, however, is the executive branch unilaterally exiling US citizens without judicial review.

I very much doubt this would become law however. Even though you might not like the decisions SCOTUS makes somtimes, they do try to follow theConstitution and I just don't see how it is at all possible to reconicle this legislation with due process guarantees to US citizens

[DuncanK]

Shi Huangdi,

The first Patriot Act is unconstitutional and they haven't done anything about it. Why are you sure they will do anything about this one?

[Shi Huangdi]

I don't think any cases have gone before SCOTUS yet regarding the Patriot Act

[Ramo]

In fact I really don't see why you would let an Al Qaeda funder loose in a foreign country where they might be able to help their cells abroad. But if the government really thought exile was the best punishment for those people- I guess that'd be ok so long as they were tried first.

Expatration in this context is stripping citizens of their citizenship, not just deporting them.

Pretty much, anybody Ashcroft "says" is a terrorist, is a terrorist.
If you meet behind closed doors, you are suspect (no telling what sorts of subversive, anti-american plots you might be cooking up). Thus....wiretapping and survellience without the "hassle" of having to get judicial approval.

Unfortunately, this is already law by Patriot Act I.

[DuncanK]

SH,

The DoJ is already using the law. Damage is being done. Can you imagine what they could do before SCOTUS did anything about this next law? That is if they did anything at all.