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Rumsfeld is a diplomatic genius

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  • #106
    This the first time in history of NATO that a member has asked for help in the face of a potential attack and NATO has said no. What do you think Turkey is feeling about their European "allies" right now? Within the space of two months, they are denied entry into the European Union and further denied the assistance of NATO because of the French veto. If I were Turkey, I would withdraw from NATO so long as France continues to be a member. But because there is a 19-3 majority in favor of defending Turkey, it is clear who has to go. It certainly is not Turkey.

    It appears to me that the French are either acting irrationally or there is a fix in. I don't think the French are irrational.
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • #107
      Originally posted by Ned
      This the first time in history of NATO that a member has asked for help in the face of a potential attack and NATO has said no.
      yeah, because the potential attack is set by a NATO member. this crisis is a first timer in many issues. Turkey actually isn´t threatened by anyone outside the country (unless, perhaps, Greece ). the biggest thread are a bunsh Kurdish terrorists who mainly live inside Turkey. Iraq itself is no threat, since theres a large no-fly-zone behind the border.
      a new gulfwar could chance alot. but still the most dangerous threat will live inside Turkey, not outside.

      What do you think Turkey is feeling about their European "allies" right now? Within the space of two months, they are denied entry into the European Union and further denied the assistance of NATO because of the French veto.
      hmm,
      yes, I agree. the EU-thing was a mistake. any more than just leaving Turkey alone with their homework would have been any better. but I don´t share a secret, when I say Europe actually isn´t leaded by professionals. a global phenomenon methinks.
      but again, I only hear US-hardliners mockering. I´m still looking for a Turkish statement today. if you find one, share it with me. I´m curious what they think about it.

      btw things don´t look that bad though. Germany f.e. is dodging the veto by providing Dutch military with patriot-missiles. France and Beligium certainly use their connections too. this is rather a diplomatic thing than a military one. it´s been blown up pretty much lately.


      If I were Turkey, I would withdraw from NATO so long as France continues to be a member.
      It appears to me that the French are either acting irrationally or there is a fix in. I don't think the French are irrational.
      there´s a fix in and most French people are very ok. no need to dislike them.
      justice is might

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      • #108
        since Bush raised power in USA, has there ever been a littly tiny compromise accepted or offered by him to anyone and about anything?

        Why do you think that he even went to the UN?
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #109
          Originally posted by Oerdin
          I'm sensing the Belgium government is pandering to a domestic audience on this issue.
          Isn't that what a representive democratic government is
          supposed to do?

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          • #110
            Originally posted by DinoDoc
            Why do you think that he even went to the UN?
            he needed a few more months to built up enough military in order to make blitz possible.
            that while he went to UN and told: accept it or we´ll do it without you. where exactly do you find a compromise here?
            justice is might

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            • #111
              Apparently that's what the Americans think compromise is.
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

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              • #112
                “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                • #113
                  Originally posted by Maniac
                  And to elaborate a little, our foreign minister Louis Michel has been known to play the moral consciousness of the world before... For example when extreme-right entered the Austrian government.
                  Also the green party, pacifists of course, is currently in the Belgian government.
                  But he kept his mouth closed when the far more dangerous Italian government was formed! The FPÖ turned out to be a bit domesticable and the pilars of our democracy, press liberty and the separation of legislation, jurisdiction and executive branch wasn't threatened! And now look to Italy! The most "center" party in the government with Berlusconi is at least as far to the right as the FPÖ... I hate the FPÖ myself, but it was damn obvious that Austria was judged with other standards than Italy.
                  "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                  "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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                  • #114
                    Michel is a moron. Maybe they should lock him up in a cage with Rumsie and put it in the zoo.
                    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                    • #115
                      Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                      Yeah, let's dissolve NATO and get over it.
                      argh. so you bombed us for nothing? i thought that we have sacrificed ourselves for the sake of preserving NATO.

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                      • #116
                        "We" (Austrians) didn't bomb you. I guess because we can't.

                        But yes, the more came out about Kosovo, the more I think it was mostly about giving NATO a role.
                        “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                        • #117
                          There's some nifty jokes about what the nato initials now stand for but I forget what they are.

                          Something like "Nothing At all to do Treaty Organisation" and such, someone else seen this joke?
                          Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                          Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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                          • #118
                            Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                            "We" (Austrians) didn't bomb you. I guess because we can't.
                            I know, I know. However, Dutch did make an effort and sent both of their planes

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                            • #119
                              I thought there was just one flying dutchman. So two? Then why do the yanks complain?
                              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                              • #120
                                one even allegedly shot one of our planes down. he was extremely proud.

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