Minimum Wage Part 2

[Ben Kenobi]

If she is the only elder, who pays for her salary?

[Pekka]

Well the .. I don't know what they're called.. elders?
But they're not working in there, they have their own offices or so. She has contacted them, and they're now 'thinking of raising her salary'. But it's been ages and nothing has happened, and what's there to think about, raising it to at least minimum level. So, I'm thinking what happens to that money. Someone is using it. They're stealing from her, that's my opinion. It's not away from them if they just give it to her, they have their own salaries..

So, it seems to be, they're not co-operating at all. Besides it's disgusting, everyone knows it, even the people in church knows it. They give moral support to her, good people. That does not however pay my tuition fees

[Ben Kenobi]

Elder is the general term for a person in a church heirarchy. My church has pastors who are responsible for a particular section of the church, some are administrative and handle the day-to-day things.

Is there an administrative priest in this church who handles these things?

Does the church receive funding from the tithes, or from the government? I know Finland has mostly Lutheran churches, which is the state church, something we don't have here in Canada.

[Pekka]

Damn, I don't know . I now know what elder means, I think they have them. You know come to think of it, I think it was one of these elders that tipped her she was receiving way less.. Kind of 'don't tell anyone I told you this' I think. Yeah, it's lutheran church.

[Pekka]

And actually her working title is pastor.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not good. Churches are supposed to have the internal structures to deal with these kinds of things. The problem is that Christians are taught not to bring lawsuits against other believers. That's what your mom is probably running against, and why she 'submits.'

All I can think of is to shame the church into paying her properly, revealing to the congregation what is going on, especially if she has their support. They can put lots of pressure on the church, if some of the pastors are not doing their job properly without bringing in outside help.

This means diddly-squat if the government is the one writing the cheques. Are there no church-going Finns in Apolyton to answer my question?

[Pekka]

I know it's bad.. I'm not super religious, but it's also cultural thing. We don't sue people, contact lawyers etc.. we deal things like this by yelling to the other one and making threats . That whole thing about courts and all that is not our field.. so that contributes too. But in this case the other side is not willing to deal with the situation, just using tactics to make her tired of the situation. However I, selfcentered guy who is thinking about the money, will make her do something about it.
The people in congregation knows this, and they have said they're on her side. But what can you do.. little people against giants.. I know nothing is going to happen, they just avoid her long enough, if we don't really do something about this. If we don't do something about this, my mom will get screwed even more adn I won't watch that happening. After she quits, being too tired of all the bs, they'll just get another one, who will again get disappointed because they screw them over too, just like the past ones.. it needs to stop now.

Also she says she won't do her job badly, because the people need her, like she's visiting all these elder people who are about to die soon a lot and so..

edit: Ok I'll go to sleep now, it's very late, or should I say early. Please, I really want to hear your advices on this one if you have anything more, how this could be turned around. As Obiwan18 has posted, it's a tricky situation, but we're the good guys on this one I think. And we're talking about thousands and thousands of dollars here.

[Ben Kenobi]

If the church is funded off tithes, and the tithes dry up, that's a pretty big incentive to negotiate.

Your mom should stand up for herself, but if nothing changes I think she should leave. It would be great to change everything around so that this church stops using people, but sometimes that might not be possible.

However Pekka- don't get so fixated on 'your' money. You didn't earn it, though I think you are right to insist that something be done.

[Pekka]

Yeah, I'm going to go to sleep now. I think she shouldn't leave. This has been going on for years so.. no giving up.. I think. It's not my money, I know that, I haven't earned single penny of it, but it would be my ticket to Uni, and my only chance too, so I'm pretty serious about it. I think it's really worth fighting for. If we fail, then I don't get to go, simple. Also, even if I didn't get to go, it still would be wrong she got treated like this, so it's still wrong, money or no money. And I bet these people don't have all the power in the world, they can't just sit there and think 'well.. it's a good thing laws don't bind us'. It don't matter who does this, pope, the president, no one should get away with this. Ok now I'm of to bed, thanks for your posts obiwan18.

[Pekka]

I just talked to my mom.. I don't think this is going to be won. Her salary is not being paid by goverment, they don't get fundings from the gov.. so.. I don't know. She get's exactly 50% too little.. and to realize she has lots of experience and all.. it's much more than 50%.
But, only chance is if we figure out if the elders or whoever gets the money and handles it, are getting correct amount of it. If it is, then they're using it wrong, and stealing the money. If not.. then it's not going to be a fight, but a bitter defeat. So I don't know.. I thought it was too good to be true anyway, getting a break and all that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well good luck Pekka.

Nothing worse for a Church than to mistreat those who work for them.

Keep your chins up!

[Pekka]

Yeah.. sucks big time. But it's not going to hold me down, I'm still going to make it.. if not for nothing else, then just to show these guys. Nothing is free, and I'm going to be the winner after this, and show them thieves how to move up in the world in honest ways. F'em.