The Battle of Baghdad

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Isn't it actually normal for people to die in war ? Wait, only foreigners do, that's right

I will not be sympathetic to US soldiers during the battle of Baghdad. The US government and most of the US population wants to go to war, so American mothers should be prepared to mourn their children, as much as Iraqi mothers.

War is ugly. When you'll suffer from it in your family, maybe you'll understand why so many people are opposed to it.

Sorry if I sound rude, but I hate the whole "land of the brave" speech, when the land of the brave is attacking defenseless countries with no losses. If the "land of the brave" loses thousands of young men who had a great potential in the future, maybe it'll understand what war is about.
(Well, it understood for more than 15 years after Vietnam. Aren't Vietnam veterans opposed to the upcoming slaughter btw ?)

If youre worried about US hegemony , you should hope for LOW US casualties in Iraq. In retrospect the US seems to have been weakened by the victory in Kosovo. It convinced many, apparently including Osama Bin Laden, that the US cant and wont take casualties. That, combined with out withdrawls after suffering casualties in Beirut and Somalia seems to have been the basis for his strategy (provoke the US into an attack on afganistan, rouse the afghan nation against the infidel invader, and take enough US casualties so that we run again) If the US is bogged down in a quagmire that could of course have a Viet Nam effect - but if the US wins a relatively quick victory, but at the cost of 1000 or more casualties, that will probably not have a Viet Nam effect, but will put the world on notice that the US can and will take casualties. It would leave US dominance enhanced.

[Spiffor]

I'm worried about the utter lack of history of the mightiest country in the world, who only knew one major conflict on its territory, and who doesn't understand war is a tool to be used wisely.
I'm more worried by the ability of the US to declare war once a year than by its hegemony, even if both come together.
Also, as I said, I am pissed by the whole "land of the brave" speech. Maybe because I'm pissed seeing more pacifist nations being called "surrendering monkeys" or "whiners" here. I'm sure many Americans here won't use this terminology anymore if they lose a brother or a son during a war.

[Az]

Andreas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Felch]

We don't lose brothers or sons because we kick so much ass. The Romans, our geopolitical forebears, went to war all the time to maintain the Pax Romana, against smaller and less well trained armies. They did very well in those engagements. America is the same way.

It's not our fault we're so badass. We're just really good at making the finest tools of war, giving them to our best people, and using them in a way to have the biggest impact. And frankly, it isn't our fault that small countries piss us off. Iraq is obligated by a SC resolution to prove the weapons of mass destruction are accounted for. They haven't done that. Unless you want the UN to be as meaningless as the League of Nations, you'll have to put up with the US destroying the enemies of peace and order in the world.

Edit: clarification

[Spiffor]

FelchX : I guess your post was sarcastic ?

[mactbone]

Spiffor: Three or four, depending - Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Civil War, and maybe Texas v Mexico.

[Felch]

Not sarcastic at all. We really do kick ass. There's no denying that. And we are the Romans of the modern era. Right down to our former love of slavery, love of using force, corrupt Senate, and predisposition towards having a crappy second-hand culture.

It's our job to kick ass, so that all of you in Europe can feel superior.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
who only knew one major conflict on its territory,

I count at least major conflicts on US territory.

[Az]

so, who are the barbarians who are about to kick your ass?

[Felch]

There aren't any barbarians about to kick our asses, not anytime soon anyway. People always concentrate on the decline of Rome. America is still at the height of its power, we're like the Rome of the second century.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I count at least major conflicts on US territory.

What was the body count of the revolutionary war ?

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

I count at least major conflicts on US territory.

How many?

(Oh yeah, those Europeans know how to fight wars properly and wisely. Which is why they end up razing parts of their territory every half-century or so.)


Oops, was that out loud?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
>>>I'm worried about the utter lack of history of the mightiest country in the world, who only knew one major conflict on its territory,


I presume you mean the American Civil war .the amer rev and the war of 1812 were also quite major enoug for me, but ill let that go. In any case the american civil war was a a very terrible conflict, and is seared into the american historical consciousness. We also suffered in wars that took place not on our own soil.




>>> and who doesn't understand war is a tool to be used wisely.
I'm more worried by the ability of the US to declare war once a year than by its hegemony, even if both come together.


Since 1991
the US went into somalia as part of a UN operation, at teh urging of the UN.
The US fought in Kosovo, as part of a multilateral NATO operation, which Blair pushed as much as more than the US govt, after having been very reluctant to get involved in the Balkan conflict.
We went into Afganistan after an attack ON OUR SOIL that killed 3000, could easily have killed more. One which we entered with the approval of the entire world.
The implication that the US goes to war at the drop of a hat is false. Invading Iraq may or may not be justified, but the idea you imply is wrong, and to hope for high US casualties to avoid it is vile.




>>>Also, as I said, I am pissed by the whole "land of the brave" speech.

You want Americans to die becuase you didnt like Bush's speech. Hmmmmm.


>> Maybe because I'm pissed seeing more pacifist nations being called "surrendering monkeys" or "whiners" here.

France, the nation to whom the term "surrender monkers" refers is not pacifist by any means. and you want americans to die becuase you dont like the terms used by some americans on apolyton and elsewhere - I dont like some terms used by some europeans, especially wrt Jews and Israel, but i dont want them to die as a result.

>I'm sure many Americans here won't use this terminology anymore if they lose a brother or a son during a war.

the term surrender monkey is an reference (fair or not) to french actions during WW2, a war in which many americans lost sons and brothers.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
What was the body count of the revolutionary war ?

More than 1000 battle deaths.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sinapus
How many?

3. Damn typos.