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Positive aspects of religion.

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  • #46
    Community, maybe. But you can have the same thing if you volunteer for a humanitarian organisation.

    Other than that, none.

    The more important question is, do the positive aspects outweigh the negative aspects?
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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    • #47
      Originally posted by obiwan18
      What are the downsides, Sava?
      1. Religion leads to fanaticism and fundamentalism. Nastiness results.
      2. You are believing in a falsehood. It cannot be true until it has been proven.
      3. The "feel-good" factor is the same as getting high from drinking alcohol or doing drugs.
      4. Religion tends to impose its morality over others.
      (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
      (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
      (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

      Comment


      • #48
        Urban Ranger,

        Assuming everything except for 2 is true:

        1, 4

        Don't apply to believers. Believers benefit by having others join. Same with fanaticism.

        2,3 are more substantive.

        3. The "feel-good" factor is the same as getting high from drinking alcohol or doing drugs.

        Without the hangover? Sounds pretty good to me.

        2. You are believing in a falsehood. It cannot be true until it has been proven.

        Not so. There is a difference between something that is false and something that is unproven.

        What standard of proof do you require? How many scientific 'proofs' have been rendered false when scientists acquire more data?

        Finally, how do you know that my beliefs are false?
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #49
          Positive aspects of religion:

          1) Kept women in their place for years.
          2)Condoned the persecution of people who had strange ideas or lifestyles.
          3)Kept the power where it belonged i.e away from the people.
          4)Kept dangerous ideas about science and freedom from people.
          5)Allowed military tactics to develop at a rapid pace.
          Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
          Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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          • #50
            Why do you believe they are 'done?'
            I just think we've reached a point where modern religion has become counterproductive. It's no longer beneficial to worship the god of the Jews/Muslims/Christians, nor any other organised religion. We may have needed it in the past to keep us sane, but we've reached a point, as a culture, where we can explain alot of that stuff...

            Modern religion is becoming a crutch... It's doing more harm than good. If people want to keep worshipping, that's fine. I just feel, personally, that the time of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God (of Abraham and Moses) is kaput.



            3. The "feel-good" factor is the same as getting high from drinking alcohol or doing drugs.
            Without the hangover? Sounds pretty good to me.
            So it's a dependency? It may be necessary for a lot of people, but I subscribe to the idea that any and every human is capable of being challenged with reality. The real world may not "feel good" at first, but the whole point of it all is to figure out how to MAKE it good. The comforting blanket of God lulls us to sleep, when we should be striving for... enlightenment? Inner peace? Peace with reality? Whatever you want to classify it as.

            Ah, I'm rambling.

            Finally, how do you know that my beliefs are false?
            I don't want to say that your beliefs are false. I just believe that your faith, and other faiths, are manifestations of the driving force of life. There is undoubtedly "something more" than what we see and feel, but to give that something a name, a title, and a purpose? That's clearly humanising something that is... so much more than humanity. The god of an ancient minor tribe in the Near East simply cannot be the "be-all-end-all" of... it all.

            But hey, whatever floats your boat. I'm not here to judge, I'm just here to go off on tangents.

            I ramble, therefore I am.
            "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
            "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
            "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

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            • #51
              Originally posted by obiwan18
              How many scientific 'proofs' have been rendered false when scientists acquire more data?
              Thats scientific theories, not proofs.
              And do you really need someone to point out to you that a theory "rendered false" is only strengthened by the new data - as the theory is changed to more closely fit reality?
              I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by obiwan18
                Urban Ranger,

                Assuming everything except for 2 is true:

                1, 4

                Don't apply to believers. Believers benefit by having others join. Same with fanaticism.
                Don't even get me started how Christianity recruits more believers. It attacks people when they are vulnerable, in a emotionally weakened state, caused by the loss of a loved one or a recent breakup. People who are normally invulnerable often fall victim. It's like a disease, attacks only those who are weakened.

                Originally posted by obiwan18
                2,3 are more substantive.

                3. The "feel-good" factor is the same as getting high from drinking alcohol or doing drugs.

                Without the hangover? Sounds pretty good to me.
                If you need a drug or alcohol to help you escape from reality, most people think you have a problem. They don't realise it's the same with religion.

                Originally posted by obiwan18
                2. You are believing in a falsehood. It cannot be true until it has been proven.

                Not so. There is a difference between something that is false and something that is unproven.
                I am not interested in a game of sematics. It remains a fact that A (idea, concept, thought, etc.) is not true until proven.

                Originally posted by obiwan18
                What standard of proof do you require?
                Okay. Start from what we know, construct a proof or argument to show that the Christan god exists. It can either be logical or scientific. Negative arguments won't work.

                Originally posted by obiwan18
                How many scientific 'proofs' have been rendered false when scientists acquire more data?
                Ahem.

                Scientific theories aren't proven. They can acquire a variety of states such as "robust" or "sound" depending on the evidence garnered. They can be falsified, however.

                Originally posted by obiwan18
                Finally, how do you know that my beliefs are false?
                See above. They are false until proven. Otherwise, all beliefs are true, including Zeus, Odin, the Celestial Emperor, Ra, Umguf the Purple Unicorn, Ralph the Snake God, Brahma, the Ten Foot Hare, and the Giant Banana. Oh, and so is Santa Claus.
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                Comment


                • #53
                  It's no longer fashionable to hate people because of their race, but now it's fashionable for atheists to hate people who are religious?

                  wonderful
                  A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by MrFun
                    It's no longer fashionable to hate people because of their race, but now it's fashionable for atheists to hate people who are religious?

                    wonderful
                    Have you done picking on anti-homosexuals so now you are setting up strawmen against atheists?
                    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Urban Ranger


                      Have you done picking on anti-homosexuals so now you are setting up strawmen against atheists?
                      Do you think a person of any religion would find you to be respectful of them by you telling them that they believe in lies, when they feel that their faith is based on truth?
                      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by MrFun
                        Do you think a person of any religion would find you to be respectful of them by you telling them that they believe in lies, when they feel that their faith is based on truth?
                        Speaking of which, wouldn't a Christian be telling a person who believes in another religion that his religion is false? I am just taking this to the logical conclusion.

                        Besides, while that is my position, I wouldn't go and shout it in the face of a religion believer.
                        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Yes of course -- it does go both ways.

                          Religious people need to respect non-denominational people, people of other religions, and atheists.
                          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Japher
                            those are two different things. Instead of saying "the same level" you should of just left it as "the same." I do agree with Cal that diversity is a good thing, and teachs tolerance and acceptance. In away diversity helps to define the true meaning of words like love, honor, respect, and friends instead of having them confused with words like lust, admiration, and desire.
                            erm...I think we are talking about two different kinds of diversity. I am referring to racial diversity on a global scale, not the forced racial diversity practiced in modern western society.

                            This quote explains my position on racial diversity fairly clearly:

                            "Hybridization of superior and dissimilar stocks is the secret of the creation of new and more vigorous strains. And this is true of plants, animals, and the human species. Hybridization augments vigor and increases fertility. Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America. When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished, as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

                            Race blending greatly contributes to the sudden appearance of new characteristics, and if such hybridization is the union of superior strains, then these new characteristics will also be superior traits.

                            As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations. Even among inferior stocks, hybrids often are an improvement on their ancestors. Hybridization makes for species improvement because of the role of the dominant genes. Racial intermixture increases the likelihood of a larger number of the desirable dominants being present in the hybrid."

                            To me spirtuality is a following of a dogma, and it does not necessarily have to be religious.
                            What is spiritual about following a dogma or practicing a ritual? Those are transient, material things in no way related to spiritual growth.
                            ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                            ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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                            • #59
                              I don't hate Christians, I just don't like religions as a whole. They could have a role in Third World countries, but surely enlightened people of the First World can stand on themselves without a supreme being looking over their shoulders?
                              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                What makes you think all people in Third World countries are not enlightened?

                                There are thousands of ignorant and/or superstitious people in Western countries.
                                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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