The Problem with Libertarians...

[MRT144]

haha, your posts bezerker are just parodies of themselves now! its like we can just respond for you!

"use google"
"define _____"
"insult"

cmon, be creative. suprise me!

[Berzerker]

oh and can you provide a link to a quote where i agree with ted?

No, can you? You can't go back and edit my posts, MRT, so where did I say you and Ted agreed with each other?

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Berzerker
MRT -

That would take some intelligence.



So you're a liar too, no wonder you and Ted get along.

ok, you got me! you said, i get along with him...sorry for the mixup of words!

but you cant prove that i do...can you?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Ted -

you complained about me asking for the stat.

Then show me my exact words. That shouldn't be too hard, right?

By the way, I'm glad you called me a fool, I haven't seen that one from you yet, but the a$$shole one was pretty novel and amusing.

The alternative to death was doing as ordered, that is enslavement.

enslavement

\En*slave"ment\, n. The act of reducing to slavery; state of being enslaved; bondage; servitude.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=enslavement

I don't see anything in here about "do what I say or die!"

While you're at it, how does this differ from the situation with Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers? And then while you're at it, your whole point of discrediting the Chinese situation is because you are accusing the Emperor of enslaving his population (which you STILL have yet to prove is true).

But the whole point you miss is that The United States of America practiced institutionalized slavery during this SAME time period.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by MRT144
haha, your posts bezerker are just parodies of themselves now! its like we can just respond for you!

"use google"
"define _____"
"insult"

cmon, be creative. suprise me!

That's pretty good. Maybe we can setup some kind of bot where you just type stuff in and it takes your post and spits back the repsonse.

[MRT144]

wait that wasnt a link to a quote! got me again you sly devil! how will you emberass me next? cut my logic belt and pull down my intellectual trousers in front of all the anal retentive nerds topeka?

[Berzerker]

Ted -

I don't see anything in here about "do what I say or die!"

Yeah, Ted, the emporer asked "pretty please, with a cherry on top". Nah, no slaves were ever killed for refusing to follow orders.

While you're at it, how does this differ from the situation with Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers?

Don't you mean those Founding Fathers who owned slaves? That was immoral too.

And then while you're at it, your whole point of discrediting the Chinese situation is because you are accusing the Emperor of enslaving his population (which you STILL have yet to prove is true).

I discredited your argument by explaining that it was the emporer and his court who complained about opium, not the people using it. You even offered a quote from a bureaucrat proving what I said...

But the whole point you miss is that The United States of America practiced institutionalized slavery during this SAME time period.

No, some of the states practiced slavery. So what? If that is a point worthy of my consideration, what is the point?

[Berzerker]

cut my logic belt and pull down my intellectual trousers in front of all the anal retentive nerds topeka?

Topekans could use a good laugh, but I suspect you don't need help dropping your trousers SF.

[MRT144]

tourists from topeka need airfare and who am i to say no?

[Ted Striker]

Yeah, Ted, the emporer asked "pretty please, with a cherry on top". Nah, no slaves were ever killed for refusing to follow orders.

Prove it.

Link? Stats? Summary documentation? At least show me a summary document talking about the Chinese being in a state of slavery? You are the first person I've ever heard mention this Chinese slave state.

it was the emporer and his court who complained about opium, not the people using it.

It wasn't just just one single government, but every single Chinese government from 1729 up through modern times has opposed the importation of opium.

http://www.2020site.org/opium/china.html

Secondly, that's a flawed argument. Normally people into vices or doing illegal things of course aren't going to complain about it! Duh! "Hey! I'm doing something illegal! **** this, we need to stop my actions!"

Thirdly, I can guarantee you that there was a large chunk of the population complaining about it. Just as today we have a large portion of the population in the US that complain about drug use. Go outside and do an informal survey and see what people say about it.

And finally:

1839-

Opium and its preparations are responsible for more premature deaths than any other chemical agent. Opiates account for 186 of 543 poisonings, including no fewer than 72 among children.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/opichin1.htm

[Ted Striker]

More on the scale of the opium ban

The Chinese government regarded the use of opium as one of the most acute moral and economic questions which as a nation they had to face decided in 1906 to put an end to the use of the drug within ten years, and issued an edict on the 20th of September 1906, forbidding the consumption of opium and the cultivation of the poppy. As an. indication of their earnestness of purpose the government allowed officials a period of six months in which to break off the use of opium, under heavy penalties if they failed to do so. In October of the same year the American government in the Philippines, having to deal with the opium trade, raised the question of the taking of joint measures for its suppression by the powers interested, and as a result a conference met at Shanghai on the 1st of February 1909 to which China, the United States of America, Great Britain, Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Persia, Portugal and Russia sent delegates. At this meeting it was resolved that it was the duty of the respective governments to prevent the export of opium to any countries prohibiting its importation; that drastic measures should be taken against the use of morphine; that anti-opium remedies should be investigated; and that all countries having concessions in China should close the opium divans in their possessions.

This demonstrates other countries besides China recognizing the danger.

[Dinner]

My favorite coffee shop in downtown San Diego used to be an opium den in the 1890s. I just thought I'd share that.

[Ted Striker]

Opinions of over 100 Physicians on the use of Opium in China

Compiled by William Hector Park

Some excerpts:

-When a man admits that he "smokes a pipe or two" he knows, and his friends know, that he is a confirmed opium smoker. He also knows that he is weakened physically and that he cannot give it up without inconvenience--nay, even suffering--and he is not insulted if you tell him he is being thereby morally and physically degraded.

-Every one "hitting the pipe" occasionally is in danger of forming the opium habit, and if one smokes daily for any length of time the danger is not simply increased--it becomes absolute. The habit is certain and the confirmation thereof sure. The habit is formed quickly. Not one in a thousand, be the will ever so strong, can smoke opium daily for a year (I might almost say for three months) without forming the opium habit.

-No wonder he suffers from auto-toxaemia, and becomes yellow, weak and emaciated. The amount of opium a healthy person can consume daily without injury is absolutely nil. There is no room for the comparative degree in opium smoking. Any amount is already too much.

-All opium smoking is injurious.

-Many rich Chinese smoke all night and sleep nearly all day. Artisans, coolies, etc., waste from one to four hours at the pipe, and this waste occurs not once or twice a week but every day in the year without curtailment and without fail.

-A friend of mine once asked a beggar, who slept next door to an opium den, where he lived, and he replied, "Next door to hell."

-Opium is the handiest of all suicidal agents. Mr. Bourne, acting chief justice of Shanghai, says, in speaking of Yunnan:--"Another bad result of the opium being so ready at hand is the frequency of suicides, especially among women. We heard of a case in which a mother and daughter-in-law both took opium and died, because of a quarrel over the breaking of a tea cup."

-The opium smoker neglects wife and children, pawns their clothes for opium, drives them to commit suicide and on occasion sells them, it may be, into something worse than slavery.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/opiumchina1899.htm

[MRT144]

worse than slavery? you mean like selling them into a family of clowns?

[Ted Striker]

You ever had to scrap with a family of clowns?

I'd just like to say that Apolyton is worse than Opium.