The Problem with Libertarians...

[Charlemagne120]

Ya well i have to say some of yall must be a bit messed up... listen to yourselves i mean honestly.

Ok your ideas for procreation are extremely blurred. Because some of yall got screwed out of a nicer childhood and set of parents does not mean that everyone should be. The majority of people are in loving families then nonloving.

As someone said, i forget who but someone did, about wanting loving parents is selfish...its selfish for those w/o them to ask those with to give them up.

[General Ludd]

How exactly are a few government workers and beucrats supposed to raise an entire population of children with out any parent's help, anyways? Despite all of your "nuh-uhs" such a system would be infinately worse then how orphanages are run, and would be impossible to get working well.

You call collective parenting a "utopian dream" but government controled creches a possible (and appealing) reality?

[Felch]

I don't think Apoc would have this point of view if he had better parents. Really, his argument isn't a criticism of the people on this board but of his own family.

He's still wrong, he's just wrong for a reason.

[Charlemagne120]

Thats extremely true felch...i kno apoc and how true it is...

[Ted Striker]

Speer,

I agree 100% with you. It's some fantasy world where Libertarians just expect that all of the poor people will just be magically taken care by the goodness of people's hearts. We know that just doesn't happen.

Libertarians if the government is stealing your money then get the **** off the freeways and stop calling 911.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The only thing I dont get is that the hard core Libs dont seem to see how monopolies can screw you over.

[chequita guevara]

That's because they believe that if monopolies get out of hand, someone will step in to sell a better product at a lower price. If the monopoly changes it's ways, the consumer still benefits. In actuality, the monopoly would squash the upstart like a bug through nefarious means, but we can let them have their little fantasy.

[Al B. Sure!]

Chegitz:

I agree... libertarian idealogy would work in Jefferson's time but not after the industrial revolution when massive, impersonal corporations formed... true capitalism is one of small businesses not monopolies...


thanks

[chequita guevara]

You don't know jack about what true capitalism is.

[Charlemagne120]

true capitalism lies in those who are die hard up for there means of revenue. the mom and pop stores who work for there money is capitalism

[chequita guevara]

My comment goes for you also.

[monkspider]

Che's right. Small establishments of commerce have been around since days immemorial. They certainly aren't something unique to capitalism, much less something that typifies it. Capitalism is really a pretty bad economic philosophy for these types of small buisnesses. It's just that these kinds of examples are just part of the romantic spin that people like to put on capitalism.

[Charlemagne120]

no no no ur wrong hate to say it but ya know. i dont kno what you have been smoking but capitalism isnt bad for these small businesses...without capitalism where would they be? nowhere. they would lose personality and the right to be themselves, a small PERSONAL business

[Agathon]

The central problem for Libertarians is that thinkers like Plato and Hobbes are right and they are wrong. Large and complex social institutions like markets don't just naturally spring up as "free individuals" associate with each other, they are created slowly and over time, just as "free individuals" are not born, they are merely acculturated into a certain mode of belief and expectation.

After all, if you think about the repugnance most of us show towards the sale of bodily organs, then you can appreciate how long it took our ancestors to work themselves up to such things as selling land.

Moreover, exchange economies require a huge bureaucratic apparatus to keep track of who owns what and who owes what to whom. A system of voluntary taxation would quickly destroy the market mechanism because it would generate a "prisoner's dilemma" situation in which self interest would reasonably lead to a worse outcome for everyone.

In fact, if any libertarians are reading this, how about you tell us how a Libertarian polity would solve "prisoner's dilemma" problems without either destroying itself completely or compromising its own principles? I'd really like to know...

Of course all the libertarians could do the decent thing and get real...

[tandeetaylor]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I'm sorry but that is complete bull****. I don't think Speer has a strong bond with parents, but he is still very intelligent whether you agree with him on anything or not.

The statement of mine that you were quoting had nothing to do with your reply. I said I wanted to help teach my son things that I didn't learn, and you said you can be intelligent without a parental bond. You can still be intelligent without a strong parental bond, but it is much less likely. It doesn't necessarily have to be with the mother. I consider my strongest maternal bond to have been with my grandmother, my mother left when I was 1 1/2 years and came back two years later. She missed out on important developmental years, and I'm glad she did. My grandma was a much better parent.

They wouldn't be necessarily taken away so much as never yours to begin with.

Whose are they then? Right after my son was born (btw, do you think they're not with you when you carry them in your womb for 9 months), I was separated from him for 4 hours. It was the first time he wasn't near me since he came into existence. I felt a very strong desire to be with him, to comfort him, to love him, and to feed him. I couldn't have denied that.

Breast feeding isn't needed anyway. If anything, ending breast feeding will end freaks with lactation fetishes.

Breastfeeding has been shown time and again to increase IQ. Cow's milk is for calves (sp). Nature has a purpose for everything, and human milk is the single most perfect thing for infants to be eating.

You don't need to be breastfed to be a freak. And there are lots of breastfed people who are perfectly normal.