Aztlan

[Sprayber]

Dont think its the only one

Tennesse

http://www.next1000.com/family/GRUBB/sullivan.tenn.html

Republic of Texas

http://www.republic-of-texas.net/

Hawaii

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/

Alaska

http://www.akip.org/index.html

NortWest
Columbia/Cascadia

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

Lots of people have thought about it in different parts of the country but it always ends up as a curious sidenote. Some are more serious than others but with the exception of the CSA none of them achieved very much.

[Ramo]

People who use Aztlan et al. as an argument against immigration are ignorant fools. Mexican seperatism has always been essentially nil where I've lived, and I've lived in California and Texas for most most of my life. Certainly, white Southern seperatism is a much stronger sentiment. If you don't like seperatism so much, you might want to think of kicking out white Southerners instead of Hispanics.

Anywho, Aztlan would further my vision of American society as a confederation of independent cities, so... Viva Aztlan.

BTW Zach, the term is secession, not succession.

[TomCB]

Wow Zachriel Wow

As far as pursuit of happiness goes, as long as their pursuit does not interfere with mine, fine. But since my tax dollars now have to go to multi-language forms, signs and teachers in school, I have to say sorry, learn the language or go home.

The original ideal of the US have been getting torn down constantly ever since the 1860's at least.
Those ideals are self reliance, not government programs, and the basic principle that you can work to make the lives of you and your family better without being interfered as long as you don't trample on anyone else.
That has gone the way of the dodo, although recent and consistent "conservative" gains do point in the right direction.

To say the language is not important is to say that you actually don't understand that language is one of the basic things that keep a civilization together.
English is the language of the VAST majority of Americans and we should not have to accommodate by force illegal immigrants.
The problem is that western courts may have rulings that will bear weight on mid-western and eastern courts, and that is the real issue.
If the west wants to spend it's money on multi language whatever, fine, but with the court rulings, I now have to.

I live within 8 miles of the largest Arab population outside of the middle East, and for the most part, have had positive relations with those I have worked with, in fact, they seem to have a higher sense of "honor" than most other groups. They take American names for instance.
Can you imagine how many mikes there are?
Every Mohammed is a mike in the US.
Aside of the terrorist threats we now must be aware of, there was never any real issue.
They are not coming here trying to change us.
They may stay to themselves and that is fine, but there has never been any attempt to force language or ways upon us.
Just NEVER try to date a guys sister.....BIG MISTAKE...LOL

You asked who are we to dictate anything to others.

WE ARE THE CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS.
WE ARE THE OWNERS.

THAT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO DICTATE ANYTHING IF THEY WANT TO COME HERE AND ENJOY THE PLENTY OF THE CIVILIZATION WE BUILT.

That who.

Slavery was once a fact, would it have been right to just go along with it?
Terrorism is a fact, should we just say "oh well"?
Just because something is a fact does not mean it should be.
If you actually can't comprehend why this is so important, then why not tell us how far you would be willing to go to accommodate immigrants that want to change the US into their own liking.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"
Thomas Jefferson

And Multiculturalism in Pure Evil.

It attempts to replace more productive cultures by elevating inferior (less productive) cultures.
It is anti-evolution.
It will banish more and more people to living lives that are not what they could be.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Ramo
Anywho, Aztlan would further my vision of American society as a confederation of independent cities, so...

Did you mean regions. I dont see how a confederation of cities would work on the vast scale as the US.

[Zachriel]

Re: Wow Zachriel Wow

Originally posted by TomCB
WE ARE THE CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS.
WE ARE THE OWNERS.

THAT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO DICTATE ANYTHING

That is simply not correct. America has a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. Certain rights are inalienable -- even by the majority.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ramo
Anywho, Aztlan would further my vision of American society as a confederation of independent cities, so... Viva Aztlan.

That's an interesting concept. Due to the fact that the economy is largely a continuum, you can pick economic automata of an arbitrary size. This way you can actually analyze the American economy as if it were a collection of separate economic entities, such as cities or regions.

BTW Zach, the term is secession, not succession.

I knew that . . . I thought I knew that . . . . . . cough . . . I knew that . . .

(Edited original post.)

[Ted Striker]

.

[chairmanmeow]

The 1st Amendment is often used as an excuse for immigrants not learning English. They say that since the 1st Amendment guarantees free speech, that it would not allow English to be the official language. The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." In that, it is most likely meant that the freedom of speech applies to the content of the speech, not the way it is delivered. Therefore, the government cannot arrest you for saying something they don't like, but they can say that you should say it in English.

[Dis]

I'm against mandating an official language though.

Let the private sector dicate what is expecte. IE jobs not hiring you if you don't speak English. This in turn forces most people to learn English.

[JCG]

This project has sooooo little chance of succeeding...In fact a revived CSA is much more likely than this.....

[Ramo]

Did you mean regions. I dont see how a confederation of cities would work on the vast scale as the US.

Well, the cities would organize at a regional level, and they would organize at the national level. The point is that the national and regional levels would have comparatively little authority.

The 1st Amendment is often used as an excuse for immigrants not learning English. They say that since the 1st Amendment guarantees free speech, that it would not allow English to be the official language. The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." In that, it is most likely meant that the freedom of speech applies to the content of the speech, not the way it is delivered. Therefore, the government cannot arrest you for saying something they don't like, but they can say that you should say it in English.

This is quite frightening in both the idiocy of the argument and the idea that someone would want to criminalize a language. You can rest assured that the founders never meant anything of the sort.

But since my tax dollars now have to go to multi-language forms, signs and teachers in school, I have to say sorry, learn the language or go home.

Multi-lingual forms help bring in revenue for the state. So the Spanish-speakers in this country can pay for your English-speaking teachers. And signs. And forms.

Why do we need English versions of them?

Why don't you learn their language, and why the **** is this country your home any more than theirs?

English is the language of the VAST majority of Americans and we should not have to accommodate by force illegal immigrants.

No one's forcing you to accommadate anything. You and other authoritarians are forcing people who would be a boon to our economy to live in poverty.

WE ARE THE CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS.
WE ARE THE OWNERS.

Immigrants, illegal and legal, contribute quite a bit in terms of tax. They are taxpayers as well. Many also are our labor pool, and provide our services for minimal costs (since the INS is bent on killing their families' futures, they have to settle for less). Others are owners, bringing in important technical skills not prominent enough in the domestic population.

And there is no we. There aren't enough fools to support your oppressive, draconian proposal.

THAT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO DICTATE ANYTHING IF THEY WANT TO COME HERE AND ENJOY THE PLENTY OF THE CIVILIZATION WE BUILT.

You've built jack, drop the pretention.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"
Thomas Jefferson

On that, we can agree.

[chairmanmeow]

This is quite frightening in both the idiocy of the argument and the idea that someone would want to criminalize a language. You can rest assured that the founders never meant anything of the sort.

I didn't mean that foreign languages should be criminalized. I just said that the 1st Amendment does not prevent the establishment of an official language. Of course, if there were an official language, people could in their own homes speak whatever language they want to speak, but in public matters, they would be required to speak English.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by chairmanmeow
I. . . , but in public matters, they would be required to speak English.

A little too late for that, isn't it? After all, even the conservative American President gives speeches in Spanish. Heaven forbid, he should spout off in Latin!

Ipsa scientia potestas est!

[Ramo]

I didn't mean that foreign languages should be criminalized. I just said that the 1st Amendment does not prevent the establishment of an official language. Of course, if there were an official language, people could in their own homes speak whatever language they want to speak, but in public matters, they would be required to speak English.

My comment on the idiocies of both the argument and position hold.

Can you give me anything to back up that absurd suggestion on the nature of the 1st Amendment?

Hell, the legal system would break down given that so much of it is in Latin.

[MyraeJ]

I'm curious now, Ramo, are you saying that the citizens of a country don't 'own' it? If so, please explain who does.