wave your flag Germany

[Lord Merciless]

What Germans need is a healthy of patriotism: the past shows that they have a tendency to either despise their own country or completely succumb to the nationalism.

[Sandman]

Google searches do not a point make.

So Robert Mugabe's ZANU PF is not really patriotic?

The notion of Patria is much older than that of nation. There is a minor kernel of it inside, but as you youself said, it ususally comes to mean respect for ones way of life, without the blood meaning of nation. The Romans were intensely patriotic though hardly nationalistic (otherwise they would not have been so geenrous with citizenship).

Nationalism will make use of racial theories, but it's much broader than that. Religion, class, and ideology are just as important.

[Drake Tungsten]

Never mind...

[Viking Berserk]

Americans are more proud of their country than most other nations

I bet you aren't half as nationalistic as me

[Viking Berserk]

Nationalism will make use of racial theories

BLABLABLA!!! It's not the important factor, the important thing is that you can feel proud about your heritage.

[Ramo]

Being patriotic is not the same as nationalism.

For Germans, nationalism is the same thing as patriotism since Germany is a nation-state.

[MRT144]

german tourists are not something to be proud of...

black socks, sandals, and shorts...all at the same time...for shame

[Zero]

Originally posted by Pekka
It's against the rules to put your flag if it's not a day (like independece day) it's supposed to be in display. People are very strict about it. You won't see flags anywhere here, except in sport events where you show respect for the flag and paint it in your butt.

We have rules in USA too. Its just that laws state with the word "should". Therefore it can be disobeyed without breaking a law so to speak. MANY people dont know the flag laws. For example, You shouldnt wear flag bandanas and sweaters. Flag "should" be respected and be only worn in certain situation on the armband or back of neck etc of a armed service and other services. Its all stated but I forget.

Also according to the law, the only proper way to dispose of the flag is to burn it in private. You're not supposed to throw away the flag like its some trash. People dont know alot of stuff about flag laws in US, but it really doesnt matter because within the law itself, it states you dont have to obey it.

oh and I agree with you on the clapping thing. Just shut up and let the man talk. Jesus.

Personally, I haven't seen the reoccurence of this, even in the past year. I have seen a lot of healthy patriotism and flag-waving in the last 10 years in the US, though.

Hell no, right after 911, Nationalism and racial bigotry toward arabs were so high here it was ridiculous. Alot of the "patriotic" acts resulted from 911, I cant really see how it was healthy...

[Zero]

patriotism, schmatriotism, nationalism, scnationalism whatever. It is healthy to be proud of your heritage and where you came from, but other than that, whats the point? The world should be moving toward globalization. Economic interest moves people's decision. Our economy is headed in a way where we cannot survive without interaction between the outside nations. Look at North Korea for example. Patriotism and arguing over past bloody atrocities will only prohibit possible relations. We should be thinking of ourselves as citizen of the world more so than a citizen of some state.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

And no, I don't think Germany should revive any sense of patriotism or nationalism. Both are scourges of humanity, and we would do well to follow their example.

[germanos]

Re: wave your flag Germany

Originally posted by johncmcleod
Germans I think should be more patriotic. They frown upon any type of flag waving, and they made it illegal to sing the verse of the national anthem that says Germany above all, etc. First off, it's not bad to be patriotic. Repeat after me: Being patriotic is not the same as nationalism. Americans are more proud of their country than most other nations, but we don't believe that people from other countries are lower than us (unfortunately we believed this in the past, but that's over now). Besides, Germany has a lot to be proud of. And the banning of that part of the anthem is ridiculous. When it said Germany above all it didn't mean that Germans were better than everyone else. When that was written, Germany was split up into a bunch of small countries, such as Prussia. It meant to put Germany above all those provinces as a whole. The lessons of nationalism were learned during World Wars 1 and 2, and I think it's now a thing of the past.

Sorry, but your post sort of devaluates itself:

You claim that Americans don't put (people from other) nations below them.
Yet, you do in this post state that Germany should start waving their flag and sing verses of a song they themselves decided not to sing.

Why can't you just accept some people on this Earth think, beleive and act differently then the US, and that it is OK to do so?
No, it is the USA that has the perfect understanding of drawing the fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and it is about time the Germans are being tought that lesson.

You also fail to see that since WW2, Germany has been a strong supporter of the European Union, a movement that, despite all the difficulties it had to overcome, has indeed made a tremendous progress over the past 60 years. Where in the past "Deutschland uber alles" may have helped unite the splintered German nation, they may have now found a new goal: a unification of Europe. Thus "Deutschland uber alles" has become obsolete.

There are very good reasons the Germans, and many other european countries, are not the flag-waving type, and they choose so voluntarily. Try to understand, before dismissing it.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Seneca


Is that us he's talking about?

Well, I suppose he's comparing you to St. Louis.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Heresson
I agree. Sometimes Germans overdo with their care not to be accused of nationalism. Saying: "I am proud to be German" is treated as something very very very bad I heard,
while it seems pretty innocent - and it should be like that.
Treating patriotism as nationalism is dangerous.

The problem is not the sentence as such. It is not used by most Germans, because it was adopted as a slogan by neonazi organizations soon after the end of wwII.

To the original question, I´m not at all for flag-waving, "my-country-is-the-best" stuff etc, etc, but despite that I like my country. I don´t see a reason why I should hate it for things done by Germans more than half a century ago. I´m responsible for my country´s present and future, not for it´s past....

[johncmcleod]

originally posted by germanos:
Sorry, but your post sort of devaluates itself:

You claim that Americans don't put (people from other) nations below them.
Yet, you do in this post state that Germany should start waving their flag and sing verses of a song they themselves decided not to sing.

Why can't you just accept some people on this Earth think, beleive and act differently then the US, and that it is OK to do so?
No, it is the USA that has the perfect understanding of drawing the fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and it is about time the Germans are being tought that lesson.

You also fail to see that since WW2, Germany has been a strong supporter of the European Union, a movement that, despite all the difficulties it had to overcome, has indeed made a tremendous progress over the past 60 years. Where in the past "Deutschland uber alles" may have helped unite the splintered German nation, they may have now found a new goal: a unification of Europe. Thus "Deutschland uber alles" has become obsolete.

There are very good reasons the Germans, and many other european countries, are not the flag-waving type, and they choose so voluntarily. Try to understand, before dismissing it.

Whoa there. I'm not forcing Germans to wave their flag, I just said my opinion about it. Remember, I said 'think'. And that thing about you telling me how that people like me should stop telling Europeans how to run their affairs is the pot calling the kettle black. Europeans are ALWAYS criticizing Bush and Americans. They go on and on about how Bush is evil and such. Don't tell me to not tell others how to run their affairs, the Europeans are the worst.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by BeBro


The problem is not the sentence as such. It is not used by most Germans, because it was adopted as a slogan by neonazi organizations soon after the end of wwII.

To the original question, I´m not at all for flag-waving, "my-country-is-the-best" stuff etc, etc, but despite that I like my country. I don´t see a reason why I should hate it for things done by Germans more than half a century ago. I´m responsible for my country´s present and future, not for it´s past....

I know that point, as I already asked You (or Mathias? Or Stefan?) about it once. However, You are behaving according to what John Chrisostom said "don't believe the Devil even if He speaks truth". that's not quite right I think.

Of course You aren't responsible personally for past German faults (though in fact, Your own faults are much bigger ) still, if You consider yourself a German, you are responsible as a part of nation for what this nation has once done.
Well, that's not quite what I think, but I haven't got time for bigger discussions.