wave your flag Germany

[johncmcleod]

Germans I think should be more patriotic. They frown upon any type of flag waving, and they made it illegal to sing the verse of the national anthem that says Germany above all, etc. First off, it's not bad to be patriotic. Repeat after me: Being patriotic is not the same as nationalism. Americans are more proud of their country than most other nations, but we don't believe that people from other countries are lower than us (unfortunately we believed this in the past, but that's over now). Besides, Germany has a lot to be proud of. And the banning of that part of the anthem is ridiculous. When it said Germany above all it didn't mean that Germans were better than everyone else. When that was written, Germany was split up into a bunch of small countries, such as Prussia. It meant to put Germany above all those provinces as a whole. The lessons of nationalism were learned during World Wars 1 and 2, and I think it's now a thing of the past.

[Nubclear]

Re: wave your flag Germany

Originally posted by johncmcleod
but we don't believe that people from other countries are lower than us (unfortunately we believed this in the past, but that's over now).

[Hueij]

I don't think Germany's neighbouring countries (mine included) would be to thrilled. There still is that little thing that happened 60 years ago...

[johncmcleod]

tassadar, I've never met anyone who believes that they are a better person because they're from America. Lemme guess, you're gonna tell me what about Mexicans and blacks. But that's just racism, which is evil of course, but it's different (and worse) than thinking you're better because you're from America. Yes, many Americans think America isthe best country but they believe that Americans are no better than Europeans. Anyone that would believe that would be plain stupid, the majority of Americans are descendants from Europeans.

[chequita guevara]

Most people I know think Americans are better than everyone else.

And no, I don't think Germany should revive any sense of patriotism or nationalism. Both are scourges of humanity, and we would do well to follow their example.

And a tip o' the hat to Hueij for bringing back a Betty Page avatar!

[Gangerolf]

it still says deutschland über alles. IIRC they removed the part about how germany streches from the river maas to memel.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Most people I know think Americans are better than everyone else.

[Heresson]

I agree. Sometimes Germans overdo with their care not to be accused of nationalism. Saying: "I am proud to be German" is treated as something very very very bad I heard,
while it seems pretty innocent - and it should be like that.
Treating patriotism as nationalism is dangerous.

[Gangerolf]

Being patriotic is not the same as nationalism.

nothing wrong in being a bit nationalistic either if you ask me. just don't overdo it

[Pekka]

No no no.. this is just a play beautifully done by Mr. Bush. He makes you think other people won't appreciate and love their countries! CIA is in on it too.. I have to applaud the outcome, it's perfect.

How can you say Americans love their country more than other people? How do you know this? .
I'm sure they do... but I wouldn't say others don't so much..

You see... There are American ways of doing things. For example the flag waving and all that. I can't understand why everyone applauds and goes nuts everytime Bush says something.. I mean what's with that? Can't you just shut up and sit and listen until the man is done?!
But seriously I know it's American way.. nothing wrong with that. We come from different places, for example we do it differently. We shut up in sit. We think flag waving and all that would show lack of respect.
I guess we appreciate minimalistic styles or something, and it's pretty much the opposite of American way. But we know this of course and won't hold it against you .

But if you were here and doing the same thing with our flags and stuff, we would see you as people who won't respect the flag and country and so on. Also if we were there doing our way, you'd think 'wow these guys just don't give a ****' . Just different way of doing things, it's pretty much mental.
But don't worry, I'm sure there are many countries that won't appreciate their country as much as Americans do.

[GePap]

Uncle Joe as Santa Claus

I agree that patriotism is not the same as nationalism and that there would be nothing wrong for the Germans to feel some pride in what the Bundesrepublik has done and what it stands for today. Just no nightime torchlight rallies

[Gangerolf]

Do you hang little flags on your christmas trees

[Pekka]

Hell no!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
it still says deutschland über alles. IIRC they removed the part about how germany streches from the river maas to memel.

Nope, the entire first and second verses, the first of which said, deutschland über alles, are stricken. It now officially is:

3. Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Für das deutsche Vaterland!
Danach laßt uns alle streben
Brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Sind des Glückes Unterpfand.
|: Blüh' im Glanze dieses Glückes,
Blühe, deutsches Vaterland. :|

Which is:

3. Unity and right and freedom
For the German Fatherland;
Let us all strive to this goal
Brotherly, with heart and hand.
Unity and rights and freedom
Are the pledge of fortune grand.
Prosper in this fortune's glory,
Prosper German fatherland.

There is an unofficial 4th verse which does have the offending line, but it is not sung. Only the above verse is official.

I happen to find the sentiments of the above verse to be quite noble, and more than enough to be a national anthem.

Still, I agree that Germans can afford to be more patriotic. Perhaps moreso than any other country, they have learned the lesson of ultra-nationalism and can express pride without arrogance. It is a shame to see young Germans reticent to express pride in their national achievements because they are afraid of the association with Nazism. Considering the length and richness of German history and culture, that's very unfair.

[Pekka]

It's against the rules to put your flag if it's not a day (like independece day) it's supposed to be in display. People are very strict about it. You won't see flags anywhere here, except in sport events where you show respect for the flag and paint it in your butt.

edit: You must live here to understand the severity of not waving flags and stuff. Every country has their rules about flags in certain situations like it must not touch the ground etc.. You can imagine my horror when I was (i don't know how you say it) the man in charge of things in my unit.. would you say duty officer? Anyway the commander was coming in so everybody was on their toes and crapping pants and I was taking care of preperations.. and about 10 minutes before he was supposed to be there, I noticed I have lost the flag! I had attached it in the wrong way and wind had taken it. So it was in the ground, somewhere in the compound.. Time for panic and horror as I ran all over looking for it and ready to be beaten to death by rifle. I found it just before he came and everything went smoothly.. Phew!
I mean I was breaking Olympic Records when I ran.