President Bush Jr's Scorecard

[DRoseDARs]

(I'll add proper links later as I dig them up from other threads - whom I will also provide links to - and major media outlets)



Let us review President Bush Jr's scorecard thus far:

(Note: Please add anything to this list that could be considered as the GOOD things he's done as I could only think of the BAD, the UGLY, and downright SCARY things he's done thus far in his administration...)



1) Creating a second-track court system:
Seems to totally bypass the US Constitution
Apolyton Thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=69523
Washington Post - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Nov30.html

2) Office of DisInformation:
Now defunct (riiight... )

3) TIA Total Information Awareness:
Now I'm gonna be forever creeped-out by those CapitalOne Credit Card commercials: "What's in YOUR wallet...?"
Apolyton Thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=67720
New York Times - Well, you have to sign up for free...follow link provided in first post of that thread

4) Homeland Security:
Dubious powers recently granted both to DoHS and the F.B.I.

5) Operation TIPS:
Scaled back (riiight... ) after outcry from ACLU and members of Congress

6) Desire to create a Domestic Spying Agency:
Gestapo anyone?

7) Patriot Act:
Rushed through Congress with little outside notice

8) Trying to turn a blind eye to Corporate America and the Modern Aristocracy:
Riders added last-minute to Homeland Security bill, more tax cuts for the wealthy, buggling of investigations into corporate/executive fraud

9) Rolling back environmentel protections:
Alaska drilling which wouldn't give us enough barrels of oil to help us in any kind of crisis, Clean Air Act, forest logging, dismissing Kyoto Accords only later acknowledging the possiblity of there being potentially a chance that Humans might be indirectly affecting - in minor ways and isolated cases - the Earth's enviroment through our activities...maybe...

10) Snubbing nose at international community:
Only begrudgingly going to the UN and waiting out the process with some prodding after immense pressure - both at home and abroad, all too eager to go-it-alone with War on Terrorism

11) Backing out of Anti-Ballistic treaty:
Wants to develope NEW kinds of nukes AND open up the possiblity to use small-scale tactical nukes on the battlefield



All this just in President Bush Jr's first 2 years in office, mostly just in the past few months...



I realize that there are several different threads on each of these topics, but perhaps this one could be used as a more condensed version, or a focusing point for discussion...IF the mods approve.



Discuss...

[The diplomat]

Re: President Bush Jr's Scorecard

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
(I'll add proper links later as I dig them up from other threads - whom I will also provide links to - and major media outlets)

Let us review President Bush Jr's scorecard thus far:

(Note: Please add anything to this list that could be considered as the GOOD things he's done as I could only think of the BAD, the UGLY, and downright SCARY things he's done thus far in his administration...)

I think your review is very biased.

1) Creating a second-track court system:
Seems to totally bypass the US Constitution
Apolyton Thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=69523
Washington Post - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Nov30.html

This is the same court system that has existed since before WW2 and was used extensively to try japanese and german spies. When was the outrage then?

2) Office of DisInformation:
Now defunct (riiight... )

3) TIA Total Information Awareness:
Now I'm gonna be forever creeped-out by those CapitalOne Credit Card commercials: "What's in YOUR wallet...?"
Apolyton Thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=67720
New York Times - Well, you have to sign up for free...follow link provided in first post of that thread

So, the logo is creepy and invites conspiracy theories. Just because the logo is creepy does not mean that they are necessarily bad. It is just a logo.

4) Homeland Security:
Dubious powers recently granted both to DoHS and the F.B.I.

What dubious powers?

The important thing is that the DoHS simply combines the already existing agencies like FBI, INS, Coast Guard into a single organization for better coordination and efficiency. The DoHS is not some new secret agency.

5) Operation TIPS:
Scaled back (riiight... ) after outcry from ACLU and members of Congress

Agreed. Hopefully it will be scaled back further and even terminated soon. It was a bad idea.

6) Desire to create a Domestic Spying Agency:
Gestapo anyone?

Britain has a domestic spying agency, called the MI5, and I don't hear anyone screaming that they are a gestapo organization and a dictatorial society.

7) Patriot Act:
Rushed through Congress with little outside notice

Could you be more specific?


[quote]
8) Trying to turn a blind eye to Corporate America and the Modern Aristocracy:
Riders added last-minute to Homeland Security bill, more tax cuts for the wealthy, buggling of investigations into corporate/executive fraud
[quote]

That is democratic propaganda again. For example, the Terrorism Insurance provision helps companies go ahead with large scale construction projects without fear of loss of property in the event of a terrorist attack. Helping these construction projects go ahead will provide more jobs for construction workers as well as help businesses grow.

The tax cuts go to to everyone who pays taxes, middle or high income. Or do you suggest giving tax cuts to the begger that has no money and pays no taxes? How does that help the economy? The best to help the economy is to give tax cuts to people that have the power to stimulate the economy!

9) Rolling back environmentel protections:
Alaska drilling which wouldn't give us enough barrels of oil to help us in any kind of crisis, Clean Air Act, forest logging, dismissing Kyoto Accords only later acknowledging the possiblity of there being potentially a chance that Humans might be indirectly affecting - in minor ways and isolated cases - the Earth's enviroment through our activities...maybe...

Many of these protections were inefficient, bureaucratic mess that helped no one and certainly not the envirronment nor the economy.

Now we can sign the Kyoto Accord and lose more jobs and hurt our economy just so that we can feel good about yourselves because we can pretend that we care about nature. Or, we can stimulate the economy and protect the environment in a serious way.

10) Snubbing nose at international community:
Only begrudgingly going to the UN and waiting out the process with some prodding after immense pressure - both at home and abroad, all too eager to go-it-alone with War on Terrorism

What if the international community is wrong or does not have our interests at heart? Should we follow the international community anyway so that we can feel good about ourselves?

Bush went to the UN and got them to unanimously approve his Iraq resolution. Now we are in a better position than ever to disarm Saddam and protect this nation against weapons of mass destruction. Bush is trying to protect this nation from terrorism, something Bill Clinton obviously knew nothing about!

11) Backing out of Anti-Ballistic treaty:
Wants to develope NEW kinds of nukes AND open up the possiblity to use small-scale tactical nukes on the battlefield

The ABM treaty is a cold war relic. So we should adhere to a treaty that hurts our national security just to make others happy? Bush is moving along with a missile defense system that will actually try to protect this country and our allies against ballistic missile threats.

Someday, our missile defense system might actually save millions of South Korean lives from a North Korean nuclear attack, something your ABM treaty will never be able to do. After all, the ABM treaty did not prevent NK from developping nukes and long range missiles, it just prevented us from developping a defense against it.

All this just in President Bush Jr's first 2 years in office, mostly just in the past few months...

And you are forgetting many acomplishments:

1) Education bill
2) Corporate Reform bill
3) Campaign Finance Reform bill
4) Successes in the War on terrorism. We freed Afghanistan from a tyrannical government, the Taliban, and killed or captured may Al Queda leaders and operatives. We have alos freezed financial assets for terrorist groups around the world making it harder for those groups to operate. We have organized unprecended world wide cooperation against terrorism.

[DinoDoc]

6) Desire to create a Domestic Spying Agency:
Gestapo anyone?

MI5 to be exact.

[TheStinger]

I thought the FBI had sections which operated like MI5

[DinoDoc]

It does. Which is why that idea won't go anywhere.

[Seeker]

"Someday, our missile defense system might actually save millions of South Korean lives from a North Korean nuclear attack"

LOL, a delusion...

you might find that South Koreans are souring on America recently....

Remember, it is the US that is trying to aggravate the NKs over here, the Japs and SKs really just want to continue the 'Sunshine' Policy.

[Sava]

Success on the war on terror

Let's add some more stuff to the Bush--- BAD List

-- Gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy (Enron received nearly 500 million dollars, despite not paying any taxes from 1997-2000)

-- Cancelled raises for federal employees while approving a pay raise for Congress. The total amount saved by cancelling the raises... 1 billion dollars... almost half of that money could have been saved by not giving Enron a tax cut.

Bush is a moron... but he'll be out in 2004 so it doesn't matter.

[Ned]

Good list. A+ from Republicans, patriots and other such right wing crazies. F- from anti-Americans, Democrats and similar far left crackpots.

To those who have no agenda, Bush gets a B+.

[DinoDoc]

(Enron received nearly 500 million dollars, despite not paying any taxes from 1997-2000)

Should Bush really be the target of your ire? It really looks like you should be more anti-Clinton the way you keep bringing this up.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Seeker
the Japs and SKs really just want to continue the 'Sunshine' Policy.

Even in the face of its apparent faliure?

[Sava]

I am anti-Clinton... he bombed the sh!t out of Kosovo and was the best president in the history of America for corporations. Remember, I'm not a democrat.

The difference with Clinton and Bush is that Bush just gives money to corporate America... Clinton just allowed them to prosper.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Sava
The difference with Clinton and Bush is that Bush just gives money to corporate America... Clinton just allowed them to prosper.

Clinton is the indisputed king of illegal campaign contributions. He took millions from corporations, unions, special interests, even a few chinese arms dealers here and there. He was never one to refuse money no matter where it came from.

But let's look at this issue of corporations more closely. How many jobs do corporations create every year? How many jobs do lower class workers create every year?

Why do democrats insist on punishing corporations so as to give lower class workers more government hand outs? I don't get that! You are going to help lower class workers a lot more by creating jobs than by giving them hand outs.

Corporations are not all evil incarnate. They support the economy and create jobs.

[Sava]

Bah, the corporations create LOWER PAYING expendable jobs... tax money can be used to train unskilled workers or send them to college...

Corporations are the evil incarnates, their sole purpose is to make money at the expense of everyone else. Get off your high horse diplomat because you're just plain wrong.

And now, the money given to corporate America IS at the expense of millions of federal employees who already make, on average, about 20% less than their private sector equivalents. But don't take that as support for privatization. When a democratic government controls jobs, the people in charge have accountability to the people. The second you privatize, you take away accountability and without accountability, you don't have democracy.

[DinoDoc]

Diplomat: <---- "Debating" Sava

[The diplomat]

Corporations are the evil incarnates, their sole purpose is to make money at the expense of everyone else. Get off your high horse diplomat because you're just plain wrong.

What do you think the purpose of business is? Of course it is to make as much profit as possible. That is the nature of capitalism!

But guess what happens when corporations make more profits? They invest that money to create more factories and more offices, and more research etc... They create jobs! Now some of those jobs will be low paying jobs.

But if I were a worker that had just lost my job, I'd prefer a low paying job to welfare checks anyday!

And now, the money given to corporate America IS at the expense of millions of federal employees who already make, on average, about 20% less than their private sector equivalents. But don't take that as support for privatization.

I sure will take your example as support for privatization. If I were a government employee earning 20% less than my private sector counterpart, I'd try to change job as fast as possible. Wouldn't you change jobs if you could earn 20% more money?

When a democratic government controls jobs, the people in charge have accountability to the people. The second you privatize, you take away accountability and without accountability, you don't have democracy.

Stop using silly euphemisms like "democratic government controlled jobs" That's socialism, plain and simple! It's been tried over and over again and it has failed every single time it tried.

Here is why: when government controls jobs, it will essentially sacrifice job growth in order to have job security. The problem is that someone has to pay for all those government benefits. The only way for government to pay for benefits for all, is through higher taxes. Higher taxes burden the economy which makes the need for government controlled jobs even higher, which means that government has to raise taxes even more so as to pay for even more benefits.

I think you see the vicious circle. You end up with a bloated government taxing everybody to death (literally!) so as to insure that everyone has a safe confortable job. It doesn't work!