World Jewry Numbers in Decline

[Eli]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
As to 'not being bought up as jews'. Thats a very medieval view on things, most christian couples don't bring their kids up christian, which means more liberal views, the kids may still be christian affiliated but not in an extreme sense,

Yes, but unlike Judaism, Christianity is a part of the US main stream culture. So those children(most of them) will keep their Christian values.
The same thing can be said about children from mixed marriages in Israel. So the mother can be Russian, but the child will grow as a Jew, the holidays in school will be Jewish, etc, etc.

But minorities, like the Jews in the US, face a problem. Every mixed generation will drift more and more towards the mainstream, which in the American case is still Christianity.

and to be honest (and i am not anti semetic or anything) othordox Judeaism is another very medieval situation, for example, not being allowed to use eecrical stuff on the sabbath, what electrical stuff was around in 500BC not to be used?

Versions of Judaism are irrelevant, following these or another rules is also irrelevant. The decline in the number of Jews in the US is not because more people die that are born, but because people who were born to Jewish or mixed families no longer define themselves as Jews. This is the problem in my opinion.

[Az]

As to 'not being bought up as jews'. Thats a very medieval view on things, most christian couples don't bring their kids up christian, which means more liberal views, the kids may still be christian affiliated but not in an extreme sense, and to be honest (and i am not anti semetic or anything) othordox Judeaism is another very medieval situation, for example, not being allowed to use eecrical stuff on the sabbath, what electrical stuff was around in 500BC not to be used?

being jewish doesn't mean to be religious. I am jewish but I don't believe in god, for example.

Eli: the russian kids that will grow up will be no different from your or my kids. They'll watch the same hebrew tv shows, and play the same games, in hebrew. arab kids will never have it , because arab and general israeli kids don't intermingle at school because the arabs choose to send their children into arab-speaking schools, and the jews into jewish speaking schools. and there you have it: differences in culture, people being in groups. I've seen myself. 'ethiopian' kids, and 'russian kids', playing. If the culture given to them by schools will be the same, and if schools and the govt. will play an important role in culture-subscribing, you will see that no problems will exist. remember in the SU? f.e. my father, has a very good georgian muslim friend. Of course, niether my father , nor the other guy are religious, and what's the most important thing is that they have the same culture. Their minds speak the same language. There are no misunderstandings in interpretation of things. They have different personalities, they're different people. But they're the best of friends. It's the common language their minds speak.

[Sandman]

A single starving child is a thousand times more important than this 'problem'.

[Ned]

The decline numbers certainly may be indicative of a weakening of the Jewish religion. It may also be an indication that Jews are more fully accepted into society so that inter-marriage is increasingly found acceptable.

By the way, is 13 million and unofficial cap? It seems to me that Jews had about this number at the time the Holocaust.

[Az]

This has nothing to do with it, Sandman.

[The Andy-Man]

But minorities, like the Jews in the US, face a problem. Every mixed generation will drift more and more towards the mainstream, which in the American case is still Christianity.

If Jews in other contries are so concerned about this, LEAVE THE GODDAMN COUNTRY. Same with Muslims in Britain, so insistent on keeping their old life style, why the **** did they come here then? Itsd diffferent with jews as they only recently got a hime country, but if, as I said, what you said is a problem, don't stay in the US.

eing jewish doesn't mean to be religious. I am jewish but I don't believe in god, for example.

But Judeaism is a religeon. Its like being muslim and not beleiveing in Allah, or Catholic and not beleiving in Jesus...

[Eli]

Originally posted by Azazel
Eli: the russian kids that will grow up will be no different from your or my kids. They'll watch the same hebrew tv shows, and play the same games, in hebrew. arab kids will never have it , because arab and general israeli kids don't intermingle at school because the arabs choose to send their children into arab-speaking schools, and the jews into jewish speaking schools. and there you have it: differences in culture, people being in groups. I've seen myself. 'ethiopian' kids, and 'russian kids', playing. If the culture given to them by schools will be the same, and if schools and the govt. will play an important role in culture-subscribing, you will see that no problems will exist. remember in the SU? f.e. my father, has a very good georgian muslim friend. Of course, niether my father , nor the other guy are religious, and what's the most important thing is that they have the same culture. Their minds speak the same language. There are no misunderstandings in interpretation of things. They have different personalities, they're different people. But they're the best of friends. It's the common language their minds speak.

Yes, of course! This is exactly what I said in the post above yours.

But the problem here in Israel is different from the problem in the exile.
Here populations dont mingle, and all Jews or part Jews will eventually drift to the mainstream which consists of a number of version of Judaism, some more religious, some less, some not at all.

But this wont happen in Europe, or the States or Argentina. People will be half Jews, quarter Jews, it doesnt matter, but they wont have that Jewish culture that even the one eigth Jews will have in Israel. They will have no connection to Am Yisrael, no connection to the land, no connection to the tradition(not necceseraly religion), they simply wont be Jews.

[Asmodean]

Am I the only person who thinks that if Isreal and the Palestinians actually moved towards a peace agreement, the number of Jews might start to climb again ??

Asmodean

[The Andy-Man]

Eli, imo your constant going on about this culture thing is bordering Pro-Jewish Nazism. Being a happy human being is a vast amount more important then 'culture'.

[Az]

well, basically, we're all westners anyway, part of the western culture. so who cares? true, there ARE differences, but if we'd initiate a culturally based campaign of immigration, it would be the equivalent of the 'law of return'.

[Plan Austral]

The husband of my sister is jewish, and she is pregnant but the baby will not be raised jew.

[Firelad]

Oy vey. The number of Jews is declining. What an enormous tragedy. This must mark the end of the world.

If people want to mingle with mainstream let them! No use mourning a people whose members are themselves leaving it. The Jewish culture won't disappear... Just the nation and religion. Nations and religions are a pain in the a$$ anyway... Causing all these wars, death and suffering and stuff...

[Az]

Eli, imo your constant going on about this culture thing is bordering Pro-Jewish Nazism. Being a happy human being is a vast amount more important then 'culture'.

Nazism? NAZISM?!!! What's Nazi about it??!!!! nazis hunted people and classified them on the basis of race, eli didn't!! All Eli was worried about is the existance of jews as a nation, and I see nothing wrong with that. I was rather upset at the article, because it portrayed the jews of other countries as dissappearing, and this is not true. Most people that have a part of themselves as jewish know it, and that's as much as I care.

Firelad: that's very cool, and all , but since the village is not yet global and not all people are the same, this hardly can be said.

[The Andy-Man]

All Eli was worried about is the existance of jews as a nation, and I see nothing wrong with that.

Didn't Hitler say stuff about the threat to the purity of the German Race? Which is why he killed so many 'non-arryans'. For me, Eli is getting to that point (though not as extreme). To me it just seems extremely Racist, and is also a cause of the problems for Jews and Muslims lining outside of the middle east - They refuse to intergrate with the country they live in and persisdt that they are Jewish/Muslim and not French, British American etc. But this article suggests a change (I certainly notice it in younger Jewish people, not so much in the muslim people lving in britain though), and a change like this means more intergration, less racism - all good.

[Az]

RACE you said RACE!!!! We're talking about a CULTURE, a NATION. Jews have in part the same origins, and in part not. We don't care. What we do care is about culture. Our culture is quite similar to the culture of europe and the US, but is a bit different, and we want that little difference to remain. I am not talking about The guys in black. I share less with them than with the general american. I am talking about the everage Israeli or regular jew in the world.