World Jewry Numbers in Decline

[St Leo]

Death to all Nations.

[Az]

Cute.

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Azazel
RACE you said RACE!!!! We're talking about a CULTURE, a NATION. Jews have in part the same origins, and in part not. We don't care. What we do care is about culture. Our culture is quite similar to the culture of europe and the US, but is a bit different, and we want that little difference to remain. I am not talking about The guys in black. I share less with them than with the general american. I am talking about the everage Israeli or regular jew in the world.

Well sorry, but the general way this topic is presented makes me think more of race, becuase a (imo) a Jew in the USA is an American, not a Jew, same for everywhere in the world (even isreal). So when someone speaks of 'international Jewry', I instantly think of race, as whenever someone says that, they are refering to the Jewish race. Cultures are sub groups of nations, and external culturels living in a nation will ventually be assimilated (look at Britain - vikings, saxons, etc). And there is no 'Jewish NAtion' as such. There is Isreal, but I don't consider a country a religeon, you can be isreali, but not Jewish, just like you can be italian but not catholic.

[Az]

there are almost no non-jewish Israelis. Some arabs do consider themselves israeli, but that's rather the exception. They don't consider themselves 'Palestinian' either, for the most part. just arab.

just as the north Sudanese, and the Syrians consider themselves arab, though most of them have little in common, 'ethnically' with the dwellers of arabia, yet they don't call themselves 'muslims' as the religion goes, but 'arabs' as the nation. what gives?

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Azazel
there are almost no non-jewish Israelis. Some arabs do consider themselves israeli, but that's rather the exception. They don't consider themselves 'Palestinian' either, for the most part. just arab.

just as the north Sudanese, and the Syrians consider themselves arab, though most of them have little in common, 'ethnically' with the dwellers of arabia, yet they don't call themselves 'muslims' as the religion goes, but 'arabs' as the nation. what gives?

whats this got to do with what I said? I was saying that you don't have to be Jewish to be Isreali. You don't have to be muslim to be Pakistani, you don't have to be Hindu to be Indian.

[Az]

yes, but Israel is still a nation-state, therefore it 'belongs mainly' to a certain nation, the jews. Israelis are all the citizens of Israel.

The husband of my sister is jewish, and she is pregnant but the baby will not be raised jew.

will he be raised as a christian? not. so what will his religion be? he probably will be an atheist, or a deist. in any case, he should be told his origins, and then he'll make his own choice.

[The Andy-Man]

yes, but Israel is still a nation-state, therefore it 'belongs mainly' to a certain nation, the jews. Israelis are all the citizens of Israel.

a country belongs to the people who live there, not a 99.9% majorty of it. (though I don't count immigrants, its not their country until they acheive voting rights and nationalization (or something) making them a citizen and national)

[Az]

a country doesn't belong to anybody.

[Sonic]

Azazel, yes, the country belongs to someone. It's either people (under direct democracy), either some royal family (under monarchy), either some dictator (under totalytarism).

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
This sounds good to me, more inter marriage means that discrimination is on the downfall. I mean, if a jew complains about this then its rediculous becuase its like saying Jews should only marry Jews, which is verging on racism imo.

Thats not racist.......thats not saying non Jews are bad, it is just saying we have an obligation to God to marry other Jews, dosent mean we think were better then non Jews, or that their not worthy being married to.

[The Andy-Man]

Thats not racist.......thats not saying non Jews are bad, it is just saying we have an obligation to God to marry other Jews, dosent mean we think were better then non Jews, or that their not worthy being married to.

But in a modern world we cannot think like this, marrying people simpley becuase of their religeous position IS racist to a degree, though focusing on religeon and not race as such, and even if it dosn't mean jews don't think that non jews are bad, it appears that they do. And it stops intergration of society (take BRent Cross in the UK, a large section of the Jewish community lives there, so they become increasingly seperated from everyone else which is a bad thing). And whats wrong with marrying into another religeon if you care about each other? Isn't that the whole point?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man


But in a modern world we cannot think like this, marrying people simpley becuase of their religeous position IS racist to a degree, though focusing on religeon and not race as such, and even if it dosn't mean jews don't think that non jews are bad, it appears that they do. And it stops intergration of society (take BRent Cross in the UK, a large section of the Jewish community lives there, so they become increasingly seperated from everyone else which is a bad thing). And whats wrong with marrying into another religeon if you care about each other? Isn't that the whole point?

To be racist means you are applying a negative conotation or hate to a group of people.

Im a religious Jews.

My best friend is(ironically) a religious Muslim who is not fasting(well up to a few hours ago) for Ramadan......

Do I think Muslims are bad?

No.

Do I think Muslims are not worth marrying?

No.

Do I think Muslims are my equal as a human being?

Yes.

Do I care about preserving my religion of Judaism?

Yes.

Do I care about doing as God has asked of my people?

Yes.

Thats why I will only marry a Jew-it has nothing to do with hatred towards anyone else.

ALSO more importantly whoever I marry I will spend the rest of my life with(hopefully).

My God is a large part of my life, marrying someone who does not believe in my God would simply NOT work, as besides the fact it would be upsetting to have a Christmas tree in my house, it would be unfair of my spouse to demand we keep a Kosher kitchen, and all the restrictions I have because im Jewish.

Your saying that this is bad because it stops assimalation and integration of Jews into mainstream society.....

Religious Jews dont WANT to be assimilated.......infact it is something we greatly dread. We want to hold onto our beliefs, our traditions, and our customs. Doing this does not mean we cant live amoungst gentiles, but it means we must live amoung other Jews as well. Im from New York, which in certain areas proboably has some of the highest Jew-Per-Mile population in the world(other then Israel), there are a good # of religious Jews in NY, but that dosent mean we ostrocize or snub out the gentiles....

[The Andy-Man]

Do I care about preserving my religion of Judaism?

Yes.

Do I care about doing as God has asked of my people?

Yes.

That is like putting God before humanity. And I am always against this view, as it does cause problems, maybe you don't see religeon as a problem, but that attitude many DO see as a problem (look at extrem islamics).

Thats why I will only marry a Jew-it has nothing to do with hatred towards anyone else.

Nope, no hatred, but it does show discrimination (which is what I see racism as - discrimination because they are not the same as you). In this case, because they are not Jewish, you will refuse to marry them, without even the consideration, which imo, is a very bad outlook to life, and is bordering racism - weather you hate them or not, it is still a view held by over religeous ignorants.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The crisis is over. I've just found all the lost jews down the back of my sofa.

[Vesayen]

"That is like putting God before humanity. And I am always against this view, as it does cause problems, maybe you don't see religeon as a problem, but that attitude many DO see as a problem (look at extrem islamics)."

The point of the Jewish religion(though not many know this....) is to live good lives by example, and hope the non Jews will be inspired by this example to do good.....so that kinda moots that fear.



"Nope, no hatred, but it does show discrimination (which is what I see racism as - discrimination because they are not the same as you). In this case, because they are not Jewish, you will refuse to marry them, without even the consideration, which imo, is a very bad outlook to life, and is bordering racism - weather you hate them or not, it is still a view held by over religeous ignorants."

I cannot relinquis my religious beliefs, if I share my life with someone they will be in the constant prescence of those beliefs, which come with many restrictions. Would it be fair to my spouse wife I married her and remained religious-even though that means she must live with the same obligations I do?

Its NOT descrimination because their not the same race.....its the fact that I cannot live for the rest of my life with someone who does not hold my beliefs, its an ideological thing, not a race one...