Should Russia Break Apart Into Smaller Units.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Sonic
Vagabond, no, Chechnya wasn't ever officially gone. BTW, I meant it would be more peaceful in the federation if Chechnya would go.

Chechnya was de facto gone. What makes you think they'd be any more peaceful if they were gone officially?

Yet again, re-read my posts before please - I said that Russian part of Russia is the major part of Federation, it has more than 2/3 of people, most of agriculture and infrastructure. Thus Russia would still remain a strong country even with all nation gone, although I don't think all of them would want to go even if independence would now be given to Chechnya and Tatarstan.

Yes, but you forget the perception part.

[The Vagabond]

Good points, Ned.

[The Vagabond]

Some bastards keep voting for Russia's dissolution. But they don't care to expose their opinions here.

[Ned]

Vagabond, Next you will see the Euro's mounting a poll to determine whether the UN should interceed on behalf of the South to finally let them go free!

As to Russia being too large to govern effectively, I have read many a historian who applauded the appointment of two Augusti which lead in time to a divided empire. The reason for the two Augusti was the apparent necessity of conducting two independent wars at the same time, one in the East and another in the West. However, what actually happened is that the West was enormously weakened because it had insufficient resources to provide for the very large army it needed. As the barbarians began to carve up pieces of the West, this problem cascaded until the West could no longer pay for the Army. So even though they remained in Roman hands, Britain and Northern Gaul were simply abandoned to their fate. The West never did raise sufficient resources to retake the fallen lands.

I could see the same thing happening to a dismembered Russia.

[The Vagabond]

Exactly. This will make it easier for China to grab Siberia, and will leave the European part of Russia without resourses.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Viking Berserk
I think those who want independence should get independence, else the UN should force it through.
I also think the russians should get out of Chechnya.

The problem that I have with Chechnya is that they or least some in Chechnya want it to become a Fundamentalist Islamic State. Then OBL would be free to move in and then one day the Russian and the US together would have invade and run him out, remove the goverment and install a friendly gov.
Serb remember you now have seat at NATO. Just can't vote yet.

Serb a question. Siberia is a big place. Where in Siberia do you live? How many miles from Moscow and North of Kazakhstan or Mongolia?
The reason that I'm asking is because I will probably not ever be able to travel to Siberia.
I live about 40 to 45 miles north east of San Francisco, California.
1.6 km per mile.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Taz
Serb *
Sprayber
Azazel *
Viking Berserk
Urban Ranger
JCG
Sonic *
Andrew1999
DinoDoc
aahz_capone
Taz

*= Qualified to discuss this matter under the criteria I published earlier.

People discuss US domestic issues all the time without ever being here or having a clue so climb down from your self imposed morality and get real like the rest of us. At least Serb talks about the issue.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
As for Chechnya, it is not ready for independence yet, as it cannot be trusted to be a responsible peaceful state.
.

The United States said that very same thing about the Phillippenes for decades. We kept it as a territory all along saying that we were doing it for their protections because they were not capable of doing it themselves. It only brougth misery to the people there and animosity towards the US. Many felt the same way about Cuba. In the end what we did was wrong. It went against what we were supposed to represent. We paid for it in blood. Let them go.

[The Vagabond]

Sprayber:
But they were already gone once! And we know very well what ensued there. Therefore the comparison with the Philippines and Cuba is not quite correct.

[Sprayber]

Some of you think that Russia has to be divided into small countries. I'm talking about letting those that are unhappy go. The more you condecend to them and treat them like children the more they will insist on going and the more they will be willing to use violence againt the goverment. What does Chechya bring to the Federation that makes it so impossible to let go? Is it just pride that is makes you not want to let them go?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Sprayber:
But they were already gone once! And we know very well what ensued there. Therefore the comparison with the Philippines and Cuba is not quite correct.

What you mean after you destroyed their cities. Were you guys really shocked that they hated you so much?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Sprayber
What you mean after you destroyed their cities. Were you guys really shocked that they hated you so much?

While one would not, of course, expect too much love, one would expect them to leave Russia in peace after they are granted independence. That didn't happen.

Besides, you miss the following point. During the period of their de-facto independence, Russia was pumping tons of federal money into Chechnya. Unfortunately this money was not spent on rebuilding Chechnya as intended, but rather on weapons, drags, mercenaries, etc.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


While one would not, of course, expect too much love, one would expect them to leave Russia in peace after they are granted independence. That didn't happen.

Besides, you miss the following point. During the period of their de-facto independence, Russia was pumping tons of federal money into Chechnya. Unfortunately this money was not spent on rebuilding Chechnya as intended, but rather on weapons, drags, mercenaries, etc.

You say de facto independence. Did Russia recognize Chechen independence? Why would the Chechens not prepare for some kind of fight?

[XarXo]

About this question, I know that Yakutia has an important independence movement.

Mongolia is becoming an example in the area, after the dissolution of the comunist government, it started a small process of recuperation (it only has 1 and a half million of inhabitants, be patient ) that encourages the other countries.

Uzbekistan is the best example of how an old republic can start a modernization process (and not only by petroleum extraction!), all the other mid-asian countries (except tadjikistan) are in a major/minor process of industrialization so... Why not Yakutia? Also there's Tannu Tuva that has at least some important history points, these two countries can surely break Russia in the eastern area.

In the west area, I believe, this is totally improbable. A truly federation of countries is the only solution.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Sprayber
You say de facto independence. Did Russia recognize Chechen independence?

No. In 1997 the sides agreed to postpone the issue of independence for 5 years.

Why would the Chechens not prepare for some kind of fight?

LOL! They indeed prepared so well (for the Russian federal money, btw) that they were even able to attack Dagestan (a republic within the Russian Federation, if you don't know).