Rugby - One game to rule them all

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
But I'm sure your kid respects the French language and sneers at all linguistic interlopers.

He ought to !

[Havak]

I assumed he meant the "All Whites" - which is to say, the New Zealand S***** team

The what?

Clearly he meant the Red Roses then?

Metaphorically speaking, in a mixed sense.

Mixed metaphors? Moi? Clearly we've opened a pandora's box of worms here.

Perhaps I’ve been Burning the midnight oil at both ends .

I made up the word - as it were - but, yes, it probably should be capitalised.

You actually hit a real one.

Not at all. A pupil oftens learns from questioning the master.

I’m not worthy to study at your feet.

French and Italian, in particular - are so much more melodic.

True. Given English is a composite of various Celtic and Germanic root languages with a smattering of latin thrown in is it surprising it lacks melody?

I'll overlook the errant apostrophe to point out that it was your forefathers who lost control of the place thus unleashing c-e-n-t-e-r and h-a-r-b-o-r and their ilk on the world.

Most of the current citizens there fail to realise had parliament decided to extend the war then Independence would have been much delayed.

They tned to analyse it using current power dynamics which says it all about the place really?

Suck on this –

The logic of my argument won through then?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak


Though of course you meant “All Whites”. Only one man made a difference in the game between us – outside of that the amateur England team thoroughly outplayed the long established Professional (in every sense) ABs.

One game (which you lost) does not a competition make. England's results prior to the games against NZ and Australia were nothing to be proud of.

27 May 1995 - England 24 Argentina 18

Pretty pathetic to only beat Argentina by 6 points. Western Samoa and Italy were able to beat them by the same margin!

31 May 1995 - England 27 Italy 20

Another unconvincing win over a mediocre team.

England lifted their game a little, and managed to beat Australia by 3 points, but after being destroyed by New Zealand, lost the 3rd place playoff by 10 points to France.


On the other hand, the All Blacks won every pool play match by at least 24 points, and had a record win over Japan, beating them 145 - 17.

If the final had been called a draw at full time(as it should have), New Zealand would have won the competition on points.

Bit of a contrast to the England performance throughout the competition isn't it?

I'd hardly call England the best team in the tournament with results like that.

[Havak]

Not only do I get caught by sucker punches but I swing some too.

On the other hand, the All Blacks won every pool play match by at least 24 points, and had a record win over Japan, beating them 145 - 17.

Ah the record international total score there. But you leaked 17 points?

Btw the new record winning margin is held by England at 134-0 over Romania in 2001.

I'd hardly call England the best team in the tournament with results like that

Is that what I said? I thought NZ were clearly the class of the tournament but just the one man won that game for you. Outside of him we played extremely well and scored some nice tries.

And to both Australia and NZ I say come back and see us any time guys – two thoroughly enjoyable games.

To the Boks – you are welcome back but lets have you playing rugby bext right? Less Biffo if you please!

This is a very clever piece of editorialisation - well worth reading some sensible English feedback

By selecting mainly understated and rational replies they have made the Campo following tirade of the last three weeks seem ludicrous.

Campo by the way wrote a nice piece in the Telegraph on Sunday that reverted to blasting all things Pommie. For indeed we are the spawn of Satan apparently.

He has really become an even more extreme caricature of himself hasn't he - in a Rob Andrew fashion he feels driven to spout controversy for the sake of it?

For a guy who hates the English he sure smiled sweetly and took plenty fo their money last July. For my part I had a terrific ten minutes messing up all his neat piles of over-priced clothes.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Ah the record international total score there. But you leaked 17 points?

Slippery little bastards ran through our legs...

Btw the new record winning margin is held by England at 134-0 over Romania in 2001.

Well done England.

Is that what I said?

I said "Everyone who watched it knows that the All Blacks were the best team of that tournament."

LDiCesare said "You mean the French, don't you?"

I replied "No, I'm pretty sure I said "All Blacks"."

You chipped in with "Though of course you meant “All Whites”" - and started talking up England's loss to NZ. I took this to mean that you were making the argument that England were the best team of the tournament. I should have realised that all but the games against NZ and Oz have been erased from your english memory.

I thought NZ were clearly the class of the tournament

Now that wasn't so hard, was it?

but just the one man won that game for you.
Outside of him we played extremely well and scored some nice tries.

Yes, well played England, you lost with grace and style.

And to both Australia and NZ I say come back and see us any time guys – two thoroughly enjoyable games.

Agreed. I reckon England choked a bit in the game against Oz though. I'm sure that won't happen when you come down south next year...

[Caligastia]

Interesting english feedback in that link BTW Havak. I'm sure all your rugby fans are as balanced.

I like this one:
"It's a GAME, statistics and theories and blindly supporting your team are part of sport. For goodness sake Aussies/Kiwi's take part in the banter instead of spouting off your know it all views and holier than though attitudes."

...but know it all views and holier than thou attitudes are all part of the fun!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
You actually hit a real one.

Pity. It shouldn't be.

I’m not worthy to study at your feet.

Yes, but I'll allow it anyway.

The logic of my argument won through then?

No, my dance smilie doubles as a contempt smilie.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
By selecting mainly understated and rational replies they have made the Campo following tirade of the last three weeks seem ludicrous.

Campo by the way wrote a nice piece in the Telegraph on Sunday that reverted to blasting all things Pommie. For indeed we are the spawn of Satan apparently.

I seem to have missed whatever those understated and rational replies were actually referring to.

He has really become an even more extreme caricature of himself hasn't he - in a Rob Andrew fashion he feels driven to spout controversy for the sake of it?

I seemed to have missed whatever Campo was blathering about, too. He hasn't been quoted here since the week before the England game when he predicted an England win.

For my part I had a terrific ten minutes messing up all his neat piles of over-priced clothes.

MRS HAVAK: "Havak! What are you up to over there?"

HAVAK: "Nothing!"

MRS HAVAK: "Leave nice Mr Campese's clothes alone!"

HAVAK: "Not touching them!"

*SLAP!*

HAVAK: "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww!"

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Btw the new record winning margin is held by England at 134-0 over Romania in 2001.

Yeah, and I made a ton in the backyard against Mum's bowling.

[Tamerlin]

I have just read some articles in this week's Midi Olympique.

The first one is an interview of Bernard Laporte (the French coach) pointing at the French backs' flaws which are the main problem to solve until the Six Nations and the RWC. The lack of engagement from the backs is identified as one of the cause of the inability to score against the AB.

Though he thinks England is perhaps currently the best team in the world the Six Nations game against England is largely considered as THE big test before the RWC.

Something is worrying me, if Fabien Galthié (Half-Scrum) is wounded, there is no equal level replacement...

The second article is an interview of Nick Mallet. He does not consider SA as having any chance to win the RWC if we consider their latest performances (or lack of...), for him the best teams are, in order :

1 - England
2 - France
3 - New-Zealand
4 - Australia
5 - Ireland, Scotland and SA

Nick Mallet says the French Five (the first and second raws) is currently the best in the world and estimates the difference between France and England is actually very slight.

As I told it here before, Nick Mallet thinks the SH teams have already some problems with static phases (line-outs and scrums) because they are no more used to fight for the ball during those phases as they are mainly considered as a way to engage the ball into play in the SH.

Both Bernard Laporte and Nick Mallet are nevertheless very cautious, the RWC is a year from now and things can drastically change until then...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
For my part I had a terrific ten minutes messing up all his neat piles of over-priced clothes.

[Havak]

Slippery little bastards ran through our legs...

If I recall there were several ex ABs in their ranks back then which probably explains how they managed a couple of tries? Those were the days when representing seven or eight countries was still acceptable. Didn’t one of the Bichops end up with Japan after already playing Samoa and NZ?

Well done England.

That Romanian side was almost the same team that Scotland could not put away the week before they did put away the Boks. Am I arguing the Boks are now on a par with Romania? Would I? For a start Romania tackle according to the laws of the game.

Serious stuff however – the butchers bill from last weekend is worse than I thought. Neil Back is out for several weeks with a broken cheekbone and Lewis Moody had to have a shoulder operation this week and is out for a month or so. That’s two top class flankers who can’t join my club for the next phase or European action although we have a wealth of talent in the back line, it is now likely to be any three from Kronfeld, Corry, Balding and Johnson (the other Johnson – Martin’s younger brother). Josh has been on fire recently – even in the loss last week.

I think Dawson is a doubt for Saints as well – and with Saints visiting us this Saturday it means the Boks have denied English club rugby three of it’s England players for a top clash. I hope they are happy. But then probably not as the red carded player picked up a three week ban to run from the start of next Super-12 season.

I took this to mean that you were making the argument that England were the best team of the tournament. I should have realised that all but the games against NZ and Oz have been erased from your english memory.

I can see how it came over. But it was only ever intended as a glib comment to draw an exchange and it worked on that basis.

Strangely the only games I can remember are those two you referenced – funny that?

Oh and the final but lets gloss over that right?

Now that wasn't so hard, was it?

Harder than you will ever know.

Yes, well played England, you lost with grace and style.

Until recently that was all we could do with style.

Agreed. I reckon England choked a bit in the game against Oz though. I'm sure that won't happen when you come down south next year...

You are absolutely right. The positive thing I took out of it is that normally after choking that would have been it. Previous England sides would have collapsed after going 15 points down. This one dug back in. I have to say it made me immensely proud of the boys. A lot of it is down to the character of the captain of course (Finbar groans loudly).

I'm sure all your rugby fans are as balanced.

Not at all. Some support Gloucester after all.

...but know it all views and holier than thou attitudes are all part of the fun!

And most fans can cope with it either way across the North-South line. I think the problem is that a lot of the Aussies in particular who get to twickers are not Rugby fans but more blinkered ‘Australia’ fans – the nation not the specific sport. The English tend to be okay with having the mick taken out of them but what they struggle with is the attitude you can get from some Aussies which seems to be that they can mercilessly rip into all things Pom and expect no offence to be taken but by god do not criticise Aus mate because it is perfect okay and you are just being rude.

It s a strange duality in some of them. Am I being unfair Finbar?

Pity. It shouldn't be.

It’s not my fault guvnor.

Yes, but I'll allow it anyway.

Gracious as ever.

No, my dance smilie doubles as a contempt smilie.

I’m devastated.

I seem to have missed whatever those understated and rational replies were actually referring to.

They ran an earlier evaluate England’s autumn piece that kind of got hijacked by whiners. We all know the three games mean very little in regards to next year and that England still have bad flaws but from some of the comments you would think Woodward had murdered their grandparents or something.

I seemed to have missed whatever Campo was blathering about, too. He hasn't been quoted here since the week before the England game when he predicted an England win.

In essence he was just pointing out the obvious in his Telegraph article. The three games showed areas that need work, do not get carried away etc. but he put it in that inimitable Campo style that puts backs up straight away. Routine Campo stuff.
That’s a nice sketch and would be accurate had Mrs Havak been taken to Aus. But she wasn’t. And yes I am still paying for that.

I do think Tamerlin and LDiCesare should get themselves to OZ. You have to visit the place, and you could call in on Finbar in Sydney. He is very grateful these threads were not very active before I went there.

Though he thinks England is perhaps currently the best team in the world the Six Nations game against England is largely considered as THE big test before the RWC

Twickenham in mid February? I would say if you beat us there then you are THE favourites for RWC despite what the ABs might think. After all the stats since RWC 99 show that the ABs actually do very badly in Australia don’t they Caligastia? When was the last win there again?

Having said that I don’t expect you to win the game.

Nick Mallett is coaching in France so I think we can take what he says with a pinch of salt. And the French tight five is very formidable. But so is the English five. February will answer the question for us.

I absolutely love it – Tamerlin has once again gone for the southern jugular on the non competition for the ball at the set pieces. Allez mon ami!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Having said that I don’t expect you to win the game.

The harder will be the fall.

February will answer the question for us.

I just can't wait.

I absolutely love it – Tamerlin has once again gone for the southern jugular on the non competition for the ball at the set pieces. Allez mon ami!

Nick Mallet told it, not me!

[Havak]

So you disagree with Nick then?

[Andydog]

I've had bugger all work to do so I've spent the morning catching up on the discussion. And it seems a great deal of the discussion was spent berating the saffee performance.

Originally posted by Havak
That the Boks have massive problems and are being systematically coached to tackle illegally and fall off their feet.

Now while I agree that the saffees have always been a dirty team, I don't know if I'll go so far as to agree that their coach is teaching them to tackle illegally. Don't get me wrong, the late tackle by Jannes Labuschagne was plain stupid. He deserved the red card, no doubt about it, and I see that he has just been suspended for 23 days by a Six Nations disciplinary committee.

The Boks did play badly on Saturday and showed that SA is missing a lot of experience. (Robbie fleck an exception as he's bumming Bobby Skinstad ) There was nobody on the paddock to tell the youngsters off for loosing their cool. If you swing a punch and your team turns around and runs back without saying anything, you aren't going to worry too much about it are you? But if someone like Mark Andrews tells you "you stupid idiot, don't do that again!" then you'll certainly stop.

The problem SA faces at the moment is that the English clubs are buying SA's mature players. Mark Andrews is over here, Andre Venter recently, the list is endless. In an effort to stop this, SA rugby categorically stated that no player playing overseas will play for SA. Unfortunately that didn't work, thus SA have been loosing the experience for good. SA rugby could solve this problem by allowing players playing overseas to be eligible for tours. Players would all of a sudden be a poor investment as they may spend a lot of time on country call up.

With any luck more mature heads would lead to a cleaner harder game.