The failed party

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ming
Ahhh yes... your reasoning is simple... People that disagree with you are stupid. Now there is a logical argument

Starting with insults instead of facts just proves how weak your arguments really are

Ming, shame on you! You didnt even read the post! I would expect more from a moderator...

I shall clarify for you. The economy is worse under Bush. Do you deny this fact?

All sympathy after 9/11 was quickly squandered by Bushs actions and the world is beginning to hate us to a very high level. Do you deny this fact?

Giving control of an entire government (which, haha, pretty much includes the economy. Haha, it also includes foreign policy! Who wouldve thought?) to someone who has made some serious...."Gaffs" is not wise. Period. It has nothing to do if I'm democrat, republican, independant, communist, socialist, facist, green....

[The Mad Monk]

...and how, praytell, did Bush worsen the economy?

As for 9-11, his response was moderate, considering what he could have done -- and what a lot of Americans were screaming for.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Ming, shame on you! You didnt even read the post! I would expect more from a moderator...

Another bad assumption on your part...

I shall clarify for you. The economy is worse under Bush. Do you deny this fact?

No.. I don't deny it. but the economy was in decline before he took office, and I don't think Gore would have been any better at improving the economy.

All sympathy after 9/11 was quickly squandered by Bushs actions and the world is beginning to hate us to a very high level. Do you deny this fact?

Oh... the world hates America... like this is new? I happen to think that America shouldn't bend over and let it happen again... an opinion as valid as yours that we should roll over and play dead just so people will like us more.

Giving control of an entire government (which, haha, pretty much includes the economy. Haha, it also includes foreign policy! Who wouldve thought?) to someone who has made some serious...."Gaffs" is not wise. Period. It has nothing to do if I'm democrat, republican, independant, communist, socialist, facist, green....

Oh... and Gore and Clinton didn't make Gaffs?

If you seriously think that this gives Bush the opportunity to do whatever he wants, you are sadly mistaken and ignorant on how the government works.
Marginal control of the senate will pretty much allow him to get some more judges in place, probably make his tax cut permanent (until the dems have control again) and to continue his war on terrorism. You may not like that, but I guess some people do.

But your opinion is that anybody that doesn't see things the way you do is stupid. Fine... your opinion, even if it is a bad one. Smart people know that they don't know everything, and are willing to listen to other opinions.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
...and how, praytell, did Bush worsen the economy.

Bad economic policies. I mean, I find it quite odd that after he got into office the economy began to, well, go down....by quite a bit. And now he doesnt seem to be able to quite fix it. If he can...I'll be happy.

As for 9-11, his response was moderate, considering what he could have done

So? His foreign policy is just plain bad. He's ******* off the people of nearly every country in the world, and governemnts aren't particularly warming upt o us either.

-- and what a lot of Americans were screaming for.

Yeah that was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction in response to a major terrorist attack....Although excusable Considering what had just happend.

[monkspider]

Take it easy on our poor Russkie, he makes a lot of interesting points.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by monkspider
Take it easy on our poor Russkie, he makes a lot of interesting points.

I would love to argue some more but I'm quite tired, so I'm going to go to sleep and read whatever has grown out of the seeds I have planted

[Nubclear]

Oh...one more response

No.. I don't deny it. but the economy was in decline before he took office, and I don't think Gore would have been any better at improving the economy.

I really don't care if you do or don't think if Gore would have been better because frankly, thats not the subject. who knows if he would have been or not, but I'm talking about now. The economy is not quite as good as it was before, and I don't like that. I'd like it repaired and if Bush and his team can't do it, then I dont want them in there.

Oh... the world hates America... like this is new? I happen to think that America shouldn't bend over and let it happen again... an opinion as valid as yours that we should roll over and play dead just so people will like us more.

No, but standing firm and tell unwilling to change and saying "You are either for us or against us!" tends to piss people off, wouldn't you agree? Now, imagine if all our enemies took the same stance...That would not be good.

Oh... and Gore and Clinton didn't make Gaffs?

Yes they have, but again they are not the subject. Are clinton and gore in office right now? No. Wyh do you feel the need to change the subject? Heck, I dont even recall mentionoing them, so I'm very confused as to how this materialized.

If you seriously think that this gives Bush the opportunity to do whatever he wants, you are sadly mistaken and ignorant on how the government works.
Marginal control of the senate will pretty much allow him to get some more judges in place, probably make his tax cut permanent (until the dems have control again) and to continue his war on terrorism. You may not like that, but I guess some people do.

I believe he can do more than just that...Especially if democrats suddenly find themselves in the need to bend over backwards for bush (as they did in the Iraq vote) to gain votes at the end.

But your opinion is that anybody that doesn't see things the way you do is stupid. Fine... your opinion,

Thats a bit dictatorial. Please quote me, I dont recall saying that.

Smart people know that they don't know everything, and are willing to listen to other opinions.

Although that would depend on your defitnition of smart (eg of averege intelligence? above averege? genius?) I dont see how the last two quotes are relevant to the discussion in any way other than the fact that "stupid" was part of what I accused americans of being and "smart" is the opposite of that.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I had many friends who did not believe me when I say this to them.....until this election.

But I completly agree with you....Americans have become *incredibly* stupid and....its REALLY sad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... none of my arguments are relevant...

This was your first post to this thread. Please explain how you supported your point of view, didn't insult people, and made a logical argument.

Oh... that's right... you weren't making a logical argument, you were only pissing on people for not agreeing with you even though you give no reasons for it Sleep well...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ming


Yeah, yeah, yeah... none of my arguments are relevant...

This was your first post to this thread. Please explain how you supported your point of view, didn't insult people, and made a logical argument.

Oh... that's right... you weren't making a logical argument, you were only pissing on people for not agreeing with you even though you give no reasons for it

Ming...do me a favor and tell me exactly how my comment was in the context of a debate? It wasn't. A debate was intiated afterwards, that was simply a commentary because, well, I was replying to a post from a fellow Apolytoner.

In fact, you are the very person who intiiated the debate. Had you not replied we would not be having this discussion, and when your just giving a short answer in support of someone else....Well, you really dont need to back them up.

So to simplify: I was not debating, I was commenting. There is a difference, and since you apparently are a master at debating I wouldve expected you to know that

Sleep well...

I will. Soon.

[The Mad Monk]

...did you just call Ming a master debator?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
...did you just call Ming a master debator?

Sarcasically yes. It was in reference to a comment he had made earlier

[Ming]

Now... point by point.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I really don't care if you do or don't think if Gore would have been better because frankly, thats not the subject. who knows if he would have been or not, but I'm talking about now. The economy is not quite as good as it was before, and I don't like that. I'd like it repaired and if Bush and his team can't do it, then I dont want them in there.

Uhhhh... well if Bush hadn't been elected, Gore would have been. so that is the subject. But using your own logic, the current balance of power between the White House and Congress has lead to the situation that you don't like... all that could be changed this election was to change congress... that happened, you should be pleased

No, but standing firm and tell unwilling to change and saying "You are either for us or against us!" tends to piss people off, wouldn't you agree? Now, imagine if all our enemies took the same stance...That would not be good.

And standing around and trying to make people happy, and not change anything makes the US safer how?

Yes they have, but again they are not the subject. Are clinton and gore in office right now? No. Wyh do you feel the need to change the subject? Heck, I dont even recall mentionoing them, so I'm very confused as to how this materialized.

you seem confused a lot when it comes to how the government works. Every president is going to make mistakes... and that's the point. For you to say since Bush made a mistake, he shouldn't be supported is just crazy...

I believe he can do more than just that...Especially if democrats suddenly find themselves in the need to bend over backwards for bush (as they did in the Iraq vote) to gain votes at the end.

Again... you show a lack of understanding on the reality of Politics.

Thats a bit dictatorial. Please quote me, I dont recall saying that.

Nahhh... you only said that Americans were stupid because they voted differently than you did.

Although that would depend on your defitnition of smart (eg of averege intelligence? above averege? genius?) I dont see how the last two quotes are relevant to the discussion in any way other than the fact that "stupid" was part of what I accused americans of being and "smart" is the opposite of that.

It is obvious that you "don't see" the point that was being made.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Ming...do me a favor and tell me exactly how my comment was in the context of a debate? It wasn't. A debate was intiated afterwards, that was simply a commentary because, well, I was replying to a post from a fellow Apolytoner.

Your fellow Apolytoner just said that Americans were stupid and then actually gave a reason, which we could disagree with or not.

You on the other hand stated that this was Proof to your friends that Americans were stupid, and gave no reasons.

In fact, you are the very person who intiiated the debate. Had you not replied we would not be having this discussion, and when your just giving a short answer in support of someone else....Well, you really dont need to back them up.

Had you not thrown out an insult, we would not be having this discussion...

So to simplify: I was not debating, I was commenting. There is a difference, and since you apparently are a master at debating I wouldve expected you to know that

And I was responding to your "comment", as you should have expected

[Nubclear]

Uhhhh... well if Bush hadn't been elected, Gore would have been. so that is the subject.

That has no relevance to Bushs mistakes and how I think americans werent quite wise for giving him a republican government. I dont care if gor ewould have bene elected or not.

And standing around and trying to make people happy, and not change anything makes the US safer how?

I never said not change anything, but making them angry isn't goning to make the cahnces higher thah tney'll be peaceful towards us.

you seem confused a lot when it comes to how the government works. Every president is going to make mistakes... and that's the point. For you to say since Bush made a mistake, he shouldn't be supported is just crazy...

I'm saying that either bush should at least try to rectify his mistakes to the best of his ability (eg serve the people) or ge tout.

Again... you show a lack of understanding on the reality of Politics.

Then explain it to me.

Nahhh... you only said that Americans were stupid because they voted differently than you did.

Quote me.

It is obvious that you "don't see" the point that was being made.

It was irrelevant to the discussion. lets stay on topic.

[Nubclear]

Your fellow Apolytoner just said that Americans were stupid and then actually gave a reason, which we could disagree with or not.

You on the other hand stated that this was Proof to your friends that Americans were stupid, and gave no reasons.

Yes, because it was commentary. I was agreeing with him, therefore I dont need to restate his points. Just expressing my approval of his statement.

Had you not thrown out an insult, we would not be having this discussion...

So is that what this entire thing is about? Your mad I called americans stupid? i can edit it if you wish.....Or you can.

And I was responding to your "comment", as you should have expected

You were responding to my comment as if it were in the context of a debate and it was not.