Should East Europe countries be thankful to Soviet Union?

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Serb
Why? WHY? WHY such monument dedicated to nazi could stand in the middle of Talin, a European capital?

“Dedicated to memory of heroes who fought for independence of our country from Soviet occupants”

Idiotic statement. So, you liberated yourselves?

No, we were occupated.

You seems to do not ****ing understand one simple thing.
IT CAN’T BE REGARDLESS OF IDEOLOGY.

Nazi Germany attacked SU because of ideology and "vital space". Romania join Germany in this attack mostly due to Bessarabia and in a smaller part due to ideology. People from Baltic countries fought against the occupation Red army along with German forces - the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Same for Finland.
I don't try to excuse those who fought mainly due to ideology and made war crimes. I am trying to tell you why those who fought against soviets CAN be considered heroes in those countries.

Using your logic: Bessarabia was part of Russia until 1918, until you took it by force. Soviets done the same in 1939- return it via force.

Bessarabia was part of Moldova for 5 centuries and was populated mostly by romanians.
You didn't answer my question : "Do you think that every teritory that belonged at one time in history to Russia (Tzarist/Soviet) is rightfuly russian?

Ok, I guess I maid a grammar error. I suggest it’s your real name, because it sounds very similar to Russian Mikhail (Mike).

Bingo!

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Serb
What are you smoking? You are sounds like hippy.

If the Party says that that black table is a white chair, you must say "What a beautiful chair" or go to jail.

"Deviants are those who keep going right ahead when the party is turning."

[/QUOTE]
All Russian people, even the young, really, really believe that nazism was plague of XX century and that nothing could compares with nazism in scale of evilness. [/QUOTE]
All romanian people really belive that nazism and communism were the plagues of XX centuries. Also they know that Romania suffered much more from communism and that communism was impose by force by Soviet Union.

[Alexander's Horse]

Fellas, fellas, let's not fight world war II again

You should let the past sleep and try and be friends - you are a new generation. Its up to you

Every evening this thread kicks off again

[Sonic]

Serb, I DID NOT justified terrorists. Why you seem to understand everything quite differently from other people? I said that it isn't big surprise that Chechenyans taken those hostages, I didn't said that it is right.

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Serb
And what is the definition of backstabbing in your understanding?

As for me everyone who joined invader’s forces in war vs. it’s own country is traitor and backstabber.

They would had backstabed SU if they would had free express oath to SU. They didn't considered SU as their own country, but as country that conqured them.

About deportates - if you what to compare SU with USA and GB, see how many deportates died during transport and due to condition in those places.

[Mihai]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Every evening this thread kicks off again

Here is morning and I can post from work.

[Pekka]

Serb, getting your fingers broken in Baltic countries for being Russian? Come on .
I mean get a grip, that's no better than braking them fingers. Now, I don't know about other Baltic countries and how Russians are treated there, but you won't get into trouble here if you speak Russian!
Russians are one of the biggest group in here anyway.
And they're all over, I haven't ever seen any conflicts.

In fact it's surprising how good we get along considering the war. There's no bad blood in here.

The stereotype of Russian being criminal is howere sadly true. But it's mostly a joke. We like to joke about our neighbours, Russians are mafiosos and Swedes are gays. But it doesn't mean anything.. and people won't take it seriously. We are considered stupid drunks with knives, so were even .
But as I said, I really don't know how Russians are treated in other Baltic countries, but I haven't heard they would be treated bad?

[Sonic]

Pekka, it is quite true also in Lithuania...

[Saras]

Serb, major blunders:

There was no Lithuanian SS legion. Lithuanians mostly dodged the rallies and took to the woods to fight against BOTH soviet and nazi armies;

Russian people are virrtually all (except perhaps embassy staff ) citizens with equal rights. It's preposterous to claim otherwise; Latvian policies are borderline racist, but however, most Russians there could be arguably qualified as "settlers in occupied territory"; such practices are illegal under UN resolutions. (same as Israeli settlers in Gaza and West Bank.)

There are no monuments to nazis; there are monuments to partisans who valiantly fought against all odds for the freedom of their country; if some partisans also cooperated with nazis, it's a shame, but that's life, there are idiots everywhere. That fact does not diminish the heroism of some 50 000 fighters that fought one of the longest guerilla wars in history (1940-1972). Yes, 1972. The last geezer was killed in a bitter firefight in 1972.

AFAIK there have been no removals of graves; graves are off limits, be it german or soviet. If some lone nut sprays a swastika in a jewish cemetary it's his and polices business;

Re: Lithuanians not liking Russians and being tought that in school - preposterous; most people with more than two braincells can differentiate "Soviet" from "Russian", but I have no tolerance for some of the idiots in your Duma whom I'd be happy to beat to pulp (Alksnis, for example, who is okay with Soviet tanks crushing unarmed people around Vilnius TV tower on January 13, 1991. Bastard ).

All in all, it is hard to be grateful to Soviet Union, a system responsible for killing every twentieth citizen of my country.

And most important of all - it is bad form to call everyone not happy about Soviets occupying free nations a nazi. Come on, you can do better.

Augi - III reichas nebuvo kapitalistinis; galiu parekomenduoti literaturos

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Serb



Why? WHY? WHY no one could understand why this thread was started?
I’m perfectly realize that they consider Soviets as occupants, but this is not the topic of this thread.

The topic of this thread is:
1) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to hate ALL MODERN Russians for what communists done?

2) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to teach their children in modern schools that all modern Russians are bandits, addicts and just "human crap"?

3) Is it OK for government of Baltic States absolutely legally treat Russians living there as second grade people without civil rights?

4) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to raze graves of Soviet soldiers and destroy monuments dedicated to people who fought vs. nazism?

5) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to treat their Red army veterans who fought vs. nazism as crap, and at the same treat their nazi as heroes?

6) Is it OK for people of Baltic States to create monuments dedicated to their nazi?

Could anyone answer those questions for me?

The Answer to all of these questions is, of course, no it isn't okay.

BUT The title header of this is that "should Eastern Europe Countries be greatful for the sU?"

Maybe for being Bullet sponges during WW2. That's about it.

To this day I am confident that, while it would have been a whole new level of difficulty (With the possibilty of German cities disappearing under Mushroom clouds) The Anglo-Canadian-American-Miscellaneous alliance could have defeated Germany without the SU intervening. (or, uh, Germany intervening on the Soviet Union)

It's all a matter of how long the Slavs of Eastern Europe would have lasted while the western front grinded along.

[Wilderess]

Collected works of Alexander’s Horse:

Originally posted by Alexander’s Horse
Would you prefer nazis running Eastern Europe?
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Soviet rule was repressive but nowhere near as bad nazi rule.
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I'm sorry but I can't see a political system based on socialism, granted a very deeply flawed and ugly version, as being as bad as a political system like nazism and fascism that was based racism and pure hatred and murder.
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Stalinist communism was evil but not as evil as nazism.

I agree with all of these views, but that is not the issue here, and the question is NOT, I repeat, NOT whether I would prefer Nazis running Eastern Europe. The Nazis were already beaten when the Soviet occupation in Eastern Europe started. The question is whether I would prefer Eastern Europe being independent or under Soviet rule.

Originally posted by Alexander’s Horse
b. It stabilised Eastern Europe.
c. It pretty much ended the nationalities and borders question.
d. It ushered in a long period of peace and social and economic development, albeit a militarised peace under the Cold War threat.
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In their own way the Sovs tried to lift up Eastern Europe and improve the standard of living of its peoples and make it a showcase to the West.

Eastern Europeans were perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. Like Mihai said: their countries would now be like Switzerland or Holland, had they been able to rebuild and recover from the war as independent countries. The Soviet rule lowered the quality of life in Eastern Europe.

Nationalities questions were not ended, they were smothered, and added with a new nationality problem: Russian occupants in Eastern Europe.

AH's view on East Europeans is not very, how should I put it, appreciative.

[Mihai]

I wasn't the one who said about Switzerland or Holland, but I second that.

And AH is a well known (not by everybody it seems) troll.

[Wilderess]

Mihai, I thought it may be a troll because AH seldom assumes the serious mode and his announcement on Eastern Europe was a bit patronising to be sincere. I just wanted to make sure.

[Alexander's Horse]

Your country sided with Hitler so who cares what you think.

[Saras]

And you are all petty criminals, so shurrup!