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Originally posted by finbar
England is only ever a fair weather friend to France, Tamerlin.
As far as Rugby is concerned Havak and I are obvious allies against the tyranny of the SH, the tempests we have successfully crossed together are the testimony of our indestructible unity.
**Doesn't this qualifies me for an appointment as a Minister of Propaganda**
OTOH, our agreement on the matter signals the birth of a long and great Franco-Australian relationship, the hallmark of which shall be mutual respect, support...
Ok, but don't count on this when Australia faces England, Ireland and, of course, France.
...and slagging off of Clive Woodward's petites Anglaises.
Only when England faces France.
Hey Havak - do you detect the same subtext of guilt that I detect?
*finbar decides his diplomatic skills and commitment to international peace and goodwill qualifies him to be the next Secretary General of the United Nations*
Undisputable try, no guilt possible.
But a dummy runner doesn't have be ahead of the ball. The point of dummy runners is to create confusion in the defence's mind - which way will the ball go? The dummy runners can be behind the ball and still create the confusion.
If the dummy runner is not ahead of the ball and the ball is not passed behind his back to another player in the line, I have no problem with the dummy runner, it becomes tactical.
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill
Originally posted by Caligastia
Yeah, and I think ravagon brings up a good point about England's spirits being high after a win against NZ. I will still be surised if Oz lose by more than 14 points though.
If they did, I would be something other than surprised. Starts with "s", ends in "l", and four vowels, a "c" and a "d" in between. Look, I have my fingers crossed for a much improved Wallaby performance, but the reality is that it will, obviously, take a big turnaround on both sides for it to be close.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Originally posted by Tamerlin
As far as Rugby is concerned Havak and I are obvious allies against the tyranny of the SH, the tempests we have successfully crossed together are the testimony of our indestructible unity.
Mmmm. Let They Who Are Joined By A Chunnel Let No Man Put Apart?
Ok, but don't count on this when Australia faces England, Ireland and, of course, France.
So I can count on your support against Italy in a couple of weeks time?
If the dummy runner is not ahead of the ball and the ball is not passed behind his back to another player in the line, I have no problem with the dummy runner, it becomes tactical.
Mmmm. Fair enough, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's a problem when obstruction enters the picture. Havak's point is that SH refs don't police the obstruction aspect of it - which, sometimes, they don't - but I think that's a different argument.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
but the Wallabies will definitely be more motivated to beat England than Ireland.
Everyone is. I still don’t know why.
On paper this should be a big win for England – is anyone buying that?
I've never heard so much nonsense. I say again - if a decoy runner causes obstruction he breaks the law.
I would suggest you pay more attention to Jones and O’Neil when they want laws changing then – that’s when the nonsense really flows.
Just joking!
Whatever our respective feelings there is a very solid chance the IRB will outlaw decoys, however hard you think it might be to apply. A back division as talented as the ABs doesn’t need such edges anyway.
In his dreams. He can't coach for dummy runners because he hasn't got an organised, integrated backline.
Fair comment. But the point helps his charm offensive. It’s very true we couldn’t use that tactic Saturday, but did that lessen the worth or quality of our tries or increase it?
Incidentally I watched the highlights again last night and Wilko could not have popped the ball for Robinson as he claimed – you were quite right. The Howlett try remain a beauty of course but the more I watch Cohen’s try the more I wonder about the AB defence – were they asleep?
I think on balance you were right – lets save the law change stuff for the dead zone times.
By the way:
1.I admire the guy as a great player, nothing more.
2.I have paid for it so I am sure going to drink it all.
3.Too close to the truth for me to laugh too much
the hallmark of which shall be mutual respect, support and slagging off of Clive Woodward's petites Anglaises.
As the French visit Twickenham in the new year I would be disappointed if the lads did not join the Finbar coalition for a weekend.
Hey Havak - do you detect the same subtext of guilt that I detect?
There is a hint of it there…
And I would much rather have you as SecGen than O’Neil at least.
The dummy runners can be behind the ball and still create the confusion.
Genuine question. Were they always behind the ball on Saturday?
Tamerlin - he's dissembling. He doesn't need to have seen something to form a judgement. (See below)
Well that’s true enough – I am English after all…
Thus he didn't see the incident but it doesn't stop him from passing judgement.
..but whilst you were right about the pint glass I did actually see the incident and, like a good player is supposed to, I had to accept the refs call on it. The fact that gave us the win is neither here nor there.
The only threat to England is the fact that David Campese has tipped them.
*Havak wakes screaming in the night*
Nooooooo! Tell me that’s a joke? Please?
BTW, we're rapidly heading towards the 500 mark. About time we cast around for another title?
Rugby – we all love England!??
Say 15 points to Canada?
I’m not convinced Wales are that good to be honest – seriously.
Also if it helps I’m not too worried about betting on the England-Australia game. I’m just interested in the result this time. And no Dan Luger will not take part (nor will Balshaw who popped the ball – two years is a long time in rugby?).
I think ravagon brings up a good point about England's spirits being high after a win against NZ
The camp is being very reserved and extremely respectful (Dawson praising the Aus halfies to the rafters etc). Maybe they are learning the lessons of five years of talking up only to choke? (you see I do know my own sides faults really)
It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
By the way - as it is the lamentable Honiss Satruday it has to be a straight win scenario. There is no way I'll bet with an Aussie start whilst that shambolic ref helms the show. What that means in essence is I will not take part in the betting on this game - the guy is one of the worst international refs I have seen in recent years. he makes McHugh look good.
It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
Originally posted by finbar
So I can count on your support against Italy in a couple of weeks time?
Yes, I'am more and more disappointed by the behavior of the Italian players which often forget to play Rugby when they face a major team and limit their game to offsides, punches and other provocations in order to avoid a larger defeats.
Havak's point is that SH refs don't police the obstruction aspect of it - which, sometimes, they don't - but I think that's a different argument.
Once again Havak is right and the SH referees often forget to police what I consider being the most dangerous practice for the future of Rugby after the prohibition to push in the closed scrums some are advocating.
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill
Originally posted by Havak
On paper this should be a big win for England – is anyone buying that?
Moi!
Whatever our respective feelings there is a very solid chance the IRB will outlaw decoys
Rather than worry about something worth worrying about - like standardising yellow and red cards; like banning Butch James for life; et cetera, et cetera.
Fair comment. But the point helps his charm offensive. It’s very true we couldn’t use that tactic Saturday, but did that lessen the worth or quality of our tries or increase it?
It had no impact on the tries you scored. If your backs were organised enough to run decoys, you might have scored more!
Genuine question. Were they always behind the ball on Saturday?
I honestly don't remember.
Nooooooo! Tell me that’s a joke? Please?
Nuh. Kiss of Death Campo strikes again.
Also if it helps I’m not too worried about betting on the England-Australia game. I’m just interested in the result this time.
Me too, actually. A bit like last weekend.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Yes, I'am more and more disappointed by the behavior of the Italian players which often forget to play Rugby when they face a major team and limit their game to offsides, punches and other provocations in order to avoid a larger defeats.
The problem is I think that their domestic refereeing level wouldn't meet even the amateur standards in our various countries. It leaves them completely unprepared for facing top level referees.
You can see it as they play - they are simply not able to adjust at all.
Tamerlin we had better leave uncontested scrums for a quieter time. Not least because Finbar asked me to cite proof and I *ahem* conveniently forgot to do so.
On a different note I am afraid I think this countryman of Caligastia's is a disgrace to the shirt and the nation. read more anti-English drivel here
Still I trust the French will make him look what he is - the world's fourth best stand off. And lets face it for an AB fourth is abject failure.
As you read the latest rant please consider two things - as the coach of a major international side Woodward is allowed to ask for clarification from the IRB on points of law.
And secondly Jones, who attacked S-12 on this occassion and produced an anti-English rant is damn well WELSH!!!!!
Originally posted by Havak
Tamerlin we had better leave uncontested scrums for a quieter time. Not least because Finbar asked me to cite proof and I *ahem* conveniently forgot to do so.
I plead guilty on this one too, I have thrown away the proof (last summer's "Midi Olympique") as I'am leaving for a new appartment in the days to come.
But the pitiful attitude of the SA coach and skipper asking the referee that scrums don't be push anymore (13' of the second half) while they were blatantly dominated by our forwards is a real matter of concern.
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill
Will you two knock it off and get back to work!? I was just about to go to bed!
Originally posted by Havak
Tamerlin we had better leave uncontested scrums for a quieter time. Not least because Finbar asked me to cite proof and I *ahem* conveniently forgot to do so.
And I bet Tamerlin's tossed it out because he's moving to a new apartment or something!
*checks Tamerlin's post, discovers he is, in fact, moving to a new apartment, calls himself clairvoyant*
On a different note I am afraid I think this countryman of Caligastia's is a disgrace to the shirt and the nation. read more anti-English drivel here
What a complete and utter goose. OTOH, I thought Eddie's line was a ripper.
Can you tell Mehrts has annoyed me?
Yes, now get back to work and let me get to bed!
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
I plead guilty on this one too, I have thrown away the proof (last summer's "Midi Olympique") as I'am leaving for a new appartment in the days to come.
See? Proof that I'm clairvoyant!
But the pitiful attitude of the SA coach and skipper asking the referee that scrums don't be push anymore (13' of the second half) while they were blatantly dominated by our forwards is a real matter of concern.
Were there no bona fide Bok front rowers fit and available for the scrum? Or was it a scam?
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Originally posted by finbar
See? Proof that I'm clairvoyant!
Were there no bona fide Bok front rowers fit and available for the scrum? Or was it a scam?
Two props were injured (true for one of them but for the other one... ) and the SA skipper suggested the scrums should not been pushed anymore because two hookers were now in the front row though the laws of the game call for five players out of the twenty two to be able to play in the front row.
As they were on the way to a severe defeat and were clearly dominated in the scrums I'am convinced it was a scam.
Pitiful and disappointing after all the praises and the so-called Springbok's renewal and revolution.
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill
Originally posted by Havak
On paper this should be a big win for England – is anyone buying that?
For some reason I would be feeling a sense of impending doom if I were an England fan...it goes hand-in-hand with outer confidence.
Whatever our respective feelings there is a very solid chance the IRB will outlaw decoys, however hard you think it might be to apply. A back division as talented as the ABs doesn’t need such edges anyway.
What are your thoughts on "decoy runners" Havak? Surely if they are behind the ball carrier there is no law being broken.
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Finbar (who is hopefully fast asleep) picked it. My primary concern is the number of times Decoy runners seem to cause obstruction.
I am afraid the talented men in black do manage to contrive this a little too often.
I am suspicious about the Boks against France. It alwasy seems a little convenient when a team being mauled in the scrum suddenly finds it has no fit experienced front rowers to bring on at need.
I wonder if they will try this with Scotland?
It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
[/predictable response]
And I bet Tamerlin's tossed it out because he's moving to a new apartment or something! 
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