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  • #106
    Hmm...

    Israel is a ME power.

    And its vast oil reserves have escaped my attention ?

    Comment

    • #107
      Don't be silly.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #108
        I genuinely don't understand what oil advantage it has to be a ME power. That we can take by force at higher cost what we can buy anyway?

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        • #109
          Two advantages off the top of my head.

          1) Pipelines and energy source diversification. Turkey has oil pipelines and the potential for natural gas pipelines (not sure how much is devoted currently to natural gas). Over time, this alternative source leveraged across the EU should result in more favorable treatment from Russia.

          2) Infrastructure and development. The fields in the Gulf region require a lot of infrastructure and development work, and the awards for this business are mostly political. I'm sure the French, for instance, would like a larger share of this business. Right now, they don't have the political heft.

          Edit: Besides, wouldn't you like to be the power broker in the ME rather than the US?
          Last edited by DanS; October 10, 2002, 12:05.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment

          • #110
            Besides, wouldn't you like to be the power broker in the ME rather than the US?


            *Looks at site of of old Twin Towers.*

            No.
            One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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            • #111
              "Pipelines and energy source diversification. Turkey has oil pipelines and the potential for natural gas pipelines..."

              And Turkey has to be an EU member to get the oil and gas into the other member states ? Are there some mysterious changes of geography associated with EU accession ?

              "The fields in the Gulf region require a lot of infrastructure and development work, and the awards for this business are mostly political."

              So we should by efforts of foreign policy subsidize oil companies in order to become more dependent on an unreliable source of energy ? That may make sense in Washington...

              "Right now, they don't have the political heft."

              I don't think that's really the case. But so what. Oil companies shall go find their business elsewhere. I fail to understand why are you are such an ardent supporter of the nannystate.

              "Besides, wouldn't you like to be the power broker in the ME rather than the US?"

              I'm content if we can stop the US from ****ing up even worse there.

              Comment

              • #112
                "*Looks at site of of old Twin Towers.*"

                Clever, but it doesn't hold. The Twin Towers were said to be because of what the US had to do to become a power broker in the region--basing and the like on holy ground (oddly, I think we can understand this complaint very well). Not the fact that we were the power brokers. The EU w/Turkey wouldn't have those problems.

                "And Turkey has to be an EU member to get the oil and gas into the other member states ?"

                No, of course not. But securing Turkey for your side puts you in a much better position.

                "So we should by efforts of foreign policy subsidize oil companies in order to become more dependent on an unreliable source of energy ?"

                Yes, but would you cut down on the compound sentences, please? Natural gas is an excellent and reliable source of energy (Saudi Arabia, Qatar). Oil is a convenient source of energy, even though reliance on it should wane over time.

                "I don't think that's really the case."

                The only way France has the heft is to piggyback on EU institutions. This is fine, but consider that the EU isn't very well respected in the region because its countries no longer have military hardware there.

                "Oil companies shall go find their business elsewhere."

                It doesn't really work that way. There is a huge amount of oil and natural gas in the Gulf region. If you don't find the business there, your business is going to be working in more marginal places.

                "I fail to understand why are you are such an ardent supporter of the nannystate."

                For energy, it's necessity borne of experience.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                Comment

                • #113
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  "*Looks at site of of old Twin Towers.*"

                  Clever, but it doesn't hold.
                  Its not your logic of whether it holds that I'm interested in. Its the ME's.
                  One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                  Comment

                  • #114
                    "No, of course not. But securing Turkey for your side puts you in a much better position."

                    A better position for what ?

                    "Yes, but would you cut down on the compound sentences, please?"

                    I try. Just be glad we don't conduct this conversation in german.

                    "Natural gas is an excellent and reliable source of energy (Saudi Arabia, Qatar). Oil is a convenient source of energy, even though reliance on it should wane over time."

                    Well the reliability problems are political.

                    "This is fine, but consider that the EU isn't very well respected in the region because its countries no longer have military hardware there."

                    Military hardware only wins you contracts in "liberated" Kuwait and occupied Iraq.

                    "If you don't find the business there, your business is going to be working in more marginal places."

                    And ?

                    "For energy, it's necessity borne of experience."

                    I'd prefer resources be used in a way that is profitable without state backing. If we can't get to the oil, get it somewhere else. If you can't, use other sources. Or should we intervene in say China to get access to their insurance market ?

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