Historical Finger Pointing, Issue I: World War I

[Dr Strangelove]

Austria demanded that Serbia allow Austrian military police agents free reign to operate within Serbia even to the point of putting Serbian police under control of these agents. Suspect Serbian citizens were to be carted off across the border to Austria for trial without bothering with legal niceties. Austrian also demanded that it be given the right to censor Serbian press and schools. In effect Serbia would have surrendered its government to Austria for an indefinite period of time.

Serbia did offer to allow a neutral party in to observe the Serbian police investigation.

Austria subsequently occupied Serbia for 2 years during the war and never found concrete proof that the assassins were part of a larger plot. The bulk of the evidence was that the conspiracy consisted of less than a half dozen college kids acting on their own.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Ah well this where all this Germany wasn't to blame crap falls apart whether you believe Fischer or not. Germany had signed a treaty guaranteeing Belgian neutrality, which they violated without a second thought. In fact their whole war plan revolved around doing so.

Its rather perverse to blame Grey for Germany's flagrant violation of a solemn treaty. It never entered Grey's mind that Germany would not honour its obligations on Belgium.

Meanwhile in Berlin, Bethman Hollweg called the Belgian treaty a "scrap of paper", which shows the mentality of the Kaiser's government. Not much different to Hitler and Ribbentrop when it came to honouring international agreements. And you're saying these gangsters were innocent of causing the war? LOL.

The German war plan had to involve tearing into Belgium. The bulk of the Franco-German border is difficult hilly terrain. They had to invade Belgium out of military necessity. It wasn't a choice they made lightly, but considering how much easier and safer for their army, they felt compelled to take it.

They had offered Belgium neutrality if they allowed the Germans to pass through. Something America does quite often nowadays.

Nobody is saying Germany had no involvement in the start of the war. I included them, along with Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Serbia.

I highly doubt your implied premise that Germany was the sole responsible power in the cause of WWI can really be valid given the desires for war that existed in many of the other governments. Germany may have been the most influential in starting the war, but it was greeted happily by the other combatants.

[GeneralTacticus]

I blame the French for the european war: The russians mobilized for war. Germany warned them to stop, but Russia refused. France, rather than asking its ally to end the preparations for war, promptly did so as well. France constantly, and violently, sought to confront Germany since the franco-prussian war. For the ocnsequences, they have none to blame but themselves.

Actually the French came to a deal with the Germans whereby they would stay out of the war if the Germans gave Alsace-Lorraine autonomy. Unfortunately the German chief of staff thought they couldn't turn the mobilization around towards Russia, so the war broke out anyway.

[Mr. President]

I blame everyone, especially the guy (can't remember his name offhand) who shot the Archduke.

[GeneralTacticus]

Gavrilo Princip, I believe.

[Boris Godunov]

Come on, there's no way that guy could have ever anticipated his actions would have precipitated a world war.

I'm looking for nation blaming!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Austria subsequently occupied Serbia for 2 years during the war and never found concrete proof that the assassins were part of a larger plot. The bulk of the evidence was that the conspiracy consisted of less than a half dozen college kids acting on their own.

Actually they were connected to the government. Their Black Hand Group was led by a member of the General Staff of Serbia (the name escapes me at the moment).

[GeneralTacticus]

I think his alias was Apis.

EDIT: I think the Serbian Prime Minister was also opposed to him.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, that's it... I was trying to remember his real name .

[Mr. President]

I'm looking for nation blaming!

Oh, fine. In that case I blame . . . Albania!

[GeneralTacticus]

Yeah, that's it... I was trying to remember his real name

It was Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijevic, head of the Serbian military intelligence.

Edited to add quote.

[Wernazuma III]

Austria acted pretty much the same to Serbia as the Russia is acting today against Georgia, what is/was not wise. But this can not be taken as guilt for a World War.

[notyoueither]

The mobilisations were the key, and the match.

The Austrians moved on Serbia. At that point the czar had a choice, mobilise or not. He mobilised.

Next the kaiser. There is no way the Germans could sit and do nothing as the Russians mobilised. They were in worse shape (or better). Their plans all hinged on a two front war with Russia and France. All their planning meant that if they mobilised they had to attack France and they had to do it through Belguim. They go.

Next the French. Well, obviously they did not have much choice, did they? The rest of the dominos fall from there.

It was the Romanov, Nicholas. He had a choice; the best choice, but he knew no better than all the rest what would happen.

[Tolls]

"Actually they were connected to the government. "

They were connected to elements in the military, not the government. The (relatively) new governemtn was opposed to disrupting Bosnia because of the inevitable backlash that would (and did) occur...they didn't want to give Austria the excuse it was looking for.

[notyoueither]

How is the military not an arm of the government?