Historical Finger Pointing, Issue I: World War I

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Velociryx
What a silly question/poll! Of *course* it was America's fault!

-=Vel=-

Damn right! We obnoxious Yanks are to blame for everything. I'm sure I can find a way we were responsible for the plague in the 14th century.

[Andrew1999]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I want more bickering, though.

I vote for Great Britain. Imperialist limeys were ultimately to blame for everything. Isn't that right, Irish posters? Right. Blame them!!!

Some Germans tried to blame the war on the British for not making it clear beforehand that Britain would get involved. The reasoning goes that if Britain had made its position clear the Germans wouldn't have gone through with their plans and peace would have been preserved. Sounds like kind of a stretch to me.

[Velociryx]

D'oh! You must have been in contact with an Illuminatus from at least the Eighth Order or higher....yes, but....that information wasn't supposed to be made public yet....:gulp!:

-=Vel=-

[Adalbertus]

Why isn't this a multiple choice poll? I know at least from Germany and France that they were dying to go to war, and I suspect it for Austria, Serbia, and Russia. I think the UK at least welcomed it because it always was happy when a major war was going on on the continent.

[Lonestar]

I see the Europeans are voting on the U.S. just on principle...

[JtheJackal]

Lets look at the facts

This is the is from the respected newspaper The Onion.

https://www.theonion.com

The headlines of thier August 5, 1914 issue

WAR DECLARED BY ALL
Austria Declares War on Serbia Declares War on Germany Declares War on France Declares War on Turkey Declares War on Russia Declares War on Bulgaria Declares War on Britain
****
Ottoman Empire Almost Declares War on Itself
****
Nations Struggle to Remember Allies

Researching through the info on the frontpage it seems the real trouble started when some Archduke of Austria-Hungry was shot. More problems appeared when a couple of drunken Americans in an Davenport, Iowa Ale House declared war on Ireland and when Corsica declared war on the Baleric Islands who then declared war on Sardinia.

After reading all this I think Cyprus is mostly to blame.

[our_man]

It's all Great Britain's fault. Home Rule for Ireland was due to come in in August 1914. In order to stop this from coming about Britain deliberately engineered a "war to end all wars" on the continent so they would have to shelve all acts for the duration of the war.

"It'll be over by Christmas" they assure the despondent Irish people. Instead it drags on for 4 years. Nobody can possibly repudiate this as evidence of Britain's guilt. Well, maybe they can, but it makes for an interesting conspiracy theory.

One final nail in the coffin: when parliament resumed in Britain in the summer of 1914, the major issue was the Irish question - not what was unfolding on the continent.

[Garth Vader]

I took Austria, although I put Serbia a close second, for starting the whole thing.

Russia, Germany, France, and the UK also have large blame for not doing anything to stop it, and in fact encouraging everything along.

[Andrew1999]

For me it's a toss-up between Germany and Austria, but I have to give Austria the edge since in the end it's their own decision (to invade Serbia.)

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by our_man
It's all Great Britain's fault. Home Rule for Ireland was due to come in in August 1914. In order to stop this from coming about Britain deliberately engineered a "war to end all wars" on the continent so they would have to shelve all acts for the duration of the war.

"It'll be over by Christmas" they assure the despondent Irish people. Instead it drags on for 4 years. Nobody can possibly repudiate this as evidence of Britain's guilt. Well, maybe they can, but it makes for an interesting conspiracy theory.

One final nail in the coffin: when parliament resumed in Britain in the summer of 1914, the major issue was the Irish question - not what was unfolding on the continent.

You know why God created Whiskey, don'tcha?


To keep the Irish from conquering the world. :: d&r ::

[Adalbertus]

For me it's a toss-up between Germany and Austria, but I have to give Austria the edge since in the end it's their own decision

After all, IIRC, Ferdinand was the heir to the throne. If a candidate for US presidentship was shot by some foreign nationalist, I think I can guess what happens ...

[David Floyd]

It mostly depends on what party the candidate was, and what party the sitting President was

[Felch]

The Serbian government was full of supporters of the Black Hand, including the head of it's military intelligence that provided travel documents to the terrorists.

It was a terrorist sponsoring nation, and while Austria's ultimatum was quite severe, it was intended to put the Serbs in their proper place.

The four coutries I'd say are responsible were Serbia, Austria-Hungary, Germany, and Russia, in a dead heat. Any of them had great potential to prevent the war, more so than France, Britain and the US.

Funny, we were going over this same issue in my history of WWI class today.

[Timexwatch]

Nobody cared about the Archduke. He was one of those guys who would show up to a function and people would wonder what he would be doing there. The Emperor didn't even attend the funeral, IIRC.

A lot of blame can be laid on the top civil servants. Count Von Berchtold, the Foreign Minister of Austria, was a virulent racist and despite Slavs, which made Austria's stomping over Serbia far more likely. His excessive demands sent in short notice to the Serbs in a language that they had few translators for (French or Latin, IIRC) made any sort of dipomacy more moot.

Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, German Chancellor, was weak and ineffectual. He was assailed by both the left and the right. His lack of authority didn't prevent Germany from issuing the "Blood Oath" or "Blank Check", a muddled piece of correspondence that was in support of Austria, but failed to define what sort of support they would provide. The Kaiser and German Gov't thought it meant verbal support. The Austrians thought that the Germans would give them full military support. Holleweg also lacked the authority to stop the Schlieffen plan.

While I'm on the subject, the Kaiser didn't help any. Wilhelm was, by all accounts, not all that bright, weak in resolve, and (this is for Boris Gudonov) rumored to be quite gay. He had eratic mood swings and failed to take diplomacy seriously. When he issued the "Blood Oath/Blank Check", he decided to go on vacation to the Baltic with the boys, leaving the rest of the German Government to figure out what in the hell he meant. In addition, instead of halting the deployment of troops under the Schlieffen Plan, he let Chief of Staff Von Moltke bully him into letting it continue. The full mobilization startled the Russians and caused them to mobilize their troops. Also, letting the incompetent Moltke lead the troops lead to the stalling of the German advance on Paris, setting the stage for brutal Trench Warfare. In addition, Wilhelm's oblivousness to the situation is seen in the infamous "Willy-Nikki" telegrams to Nicholas II of Russia where he spends most of every telegram on social issues and casually mentions the political sitation in Eastern Europe in the last sentence. He was completely out of the loop.

I'm not quite as well versed in the British/French actions of WWI, but from everything I've read, I blame Germany and Germany Jr.

[Adalbertus]

It mostly depends on what party the candidate was, and what party the sitting President was

And I thought the US presidents had more loyalty to their country...

The four coutries I'd say are responsible were Serbia, Austria-Hungary, Germany, and Russia, in a dead heat. Any of them had great potential to prevent the war, more so than France, Britain and the US.

Russia (probably) still could have avoided the war. Germany was bound by treaty to Austria-Hungary, and England and France to Russia. So Germany's declaration of war to (I think it was thus) Russia, England and France just was a matter of logic and being faithful to the alliance. Germany had to declare war on France to gain a few days. And if you look at the geographical situation, the violation of Belgium's neutrality was also more than natural (after all, Belgium was Germany until 1792 or so ... ).
In my earlier post, I more stressed the readiness to go to war, simply because I think it gives the more realistic picture.
About the US: Even if they had not the power to make the war not happen, it was their free decision to enter the war (first economically, and then militaric).