Man kills burglar in UK, gets life for manslaughter.

[dunk]

Originally posted by SpencerH
There is no mention of stabbing anyone in the back. There is mention of the burglar carrying a "jemmy" that I assume is the same as a small "crowbar".

I'm so glad I no longer live in England.

The burglarer was stabbed 12 times, mostly in the back. That was in the article.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
AFAIK UK law allows whatever action is required to protect yourself, but you are not allowed to exceed that limit.

If a guy breaks into your house you can't just blast his brains out.

If he breaks in and starts a fight you can give him a good kicking. But if you are in a superior position, stabbing his back several times is not justified.

I agree that 'twelve times in the back' dosen't quite sound like self defense, but how does one know what the limit is, in the heat of things?

[SpencerH]

I should get my money back from the Evelyn Wood sped-reddin course. I looked twice for the quote, before finally seeing it.

[Felch]

You know if y'all had guns he wouldn't have stabbed the man 12 times in the back. He could have just fired one shot to the head execution style and saved the criminal from such a horrible and ghastly death.

[Roland]

"Even the possibilty of that is crap."

Depends on the legal system. If you have a broad definition of manslaughter you'll have a broad range for sentencing. The counter example is our system where manslaughter is extremely narrowly defined and carries a maximum of 3 years (or 5, not sure without checking).

[Thrawn05]

Perhaps it was a big guy... and that in the heat of battle, the burgler was still moving and trying to kill the other guy.


Damn strait I'd stab him 12 times or more if the guy kept movie.

[Felch]

People seem to act like America is savage because we kill people over property. However, it's very easy to not be killed in a burglary gone bad.

The trick is . . . Don't break into other people's houses and try to rob them.

You'd be astonished at how well that works in lengthening your life span in the US.

[Roland]

Well isn't it the US where burglars, if they survive, can succesfully bring silly tort lawsuits ?

So it's a gamble: You get killed, tough luck. You get injured, you make a fortune in torts.

[SpencerH]

We have very few burgaries here. I wonder why ? Personally, I wouldnt shoot a burglar. I let the dogs eat em.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Roland
"Even the possibilty of that is crap."

Depends on the legal system. If you have a broad definition of manslaughter you'll a broad range for sentencing. The counter example is our system where mansluaghter is extremely narrowly defined and carries a maxiumum of 3 years (or 5)

Here it varies from state to state. It seems odd that there would be such a broad range for manslaughter. You would get such varying sentences from different jurisdictions.

[Lincoln]

I was out late one night and when I returned for some reason I suspected something was not quite right (maybe the door was unlatched, I can't really remember). Anyway I went inside my house without turning on any lights. Then I hear someone upstairs and he heard me about the same time. i said something like, " what's going on?" He said, "I have a gun!" But then I recognized his voice as somone that I knew from my job at the prison (yes he was an inmate not a guard). So I said, "what are you afraid of?" That put him off guard and then he really did become afraid of me. Then I turned on the light and invited him to sit down and I asked him what he wanted. He said that he was broke and could not pay his rent. So I wrote out a check and gave it to him. His last words to me were (as he looked at the check) "Is this realy a good check?"

It was a good check and I never reported the incident to the police. Later I saw the man at prison on some other crimes and we became friends. he invited me to dinner with his wife and kids when he got out of prison.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Roland
Well isn't it the US where burglars, if they survive, can succesfully bring silly tort lawsuits ?

So it's a gamble: You get killed, tough luck. You get injured, you make a fortune in torts.

Yeah, but that's just an incentive to make sure they don't survive.

[Roland]

"You would get such varying sentences from different jurisdictions."

Depends again on the appeals strcuture.

[Tolls]

From the Guardian:

----
Hastings, a gas engineer, said he picked up a kitchen knife, intending to frighten the intruder. He said: "This guy has come running down the hall. He's gone: 'Right, you bastard, this is it' and he's got this big thing in the air. It was all dark, the curtains were shut and I couldn't see. It was long. I thought it was a machete. He attacked me and we started fighting. I was just trying to fight for my life, I was hitting him and hitting him, probably as hard as I could."

But the court was told that Williams, also of Tottenham, was stabbed 12 times in the back. Three of the stab wounds were potentially fatal and one penetrated the heart. It also turned out that Hastings' wife and family were not in the flat.
---

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,789820,00.html

I expect he'll get 2-4 years, and the Daily Mail will kick off another campaign.

[loinburger]

Lincoln:
Just curious: did the guy actually have a gun, or was he bluffing?