OK, smarty pants, how would you "fix" America?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by dudemanjack


Here's some statistics about crimes where people were under the influence of drugs:

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html#table1

24.5 and 29.0 % of state and federal violent crimes were committed by people who were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 39% of motor vehicle thefts were by people on drugs as well. So tell me why we should legalize drugs?

If you listen to David, it's because it's "None of the Guv'ments Damn buisness!"

[David Floyd]

I think Alcohol is a problem, and will continue to be a problem. If I thought there were a feasible way to completely Ban alcohol (The USN and the other Armed Services are drifting in this direction, I've noticed) I would be all for it. Alcohol causes far to much heartache and pain for it to be completely unregulated. We took a step in the right direction increasing the legal drinking age limit, now I think places that serve alcohol need to be more concientious about letting a patron hop in a car and drive off.

So basically, you don't think that adults should be able to make their own decisions - Big Brother should do it for them.

And you do realize banning alcohol would require a Constitutional amendment, right?
Well, technically banning drug use does too, but we don't have one...so maybe not

Drugs are also one of the big drivers of crime in the United States. Possibly the Biggest driver of criminal activity. Cracking down on drugs, at the source (which would be the people who use the drugs, not the growers) would help society alot.

That's correct - people rob others in order to buy drugs. But that has nothing to do with the act of drug use, that has to do with people deciding that stealing is OK. There's a place for those people - jail. But people who just want to use drugs, and don't hurt anyone, don't belong in jail.

Look, here's my basic position. Drugs should be legal, because drug use itself doesn't hurt anyone. But if you commit a crime under the influence, you should of course be prosecuted. This protects the rights of people who want to use drugs without committing crimes, and it puts criminals behind bars. What's the problem?

Just separate the act of drug use and the crime of burglary, or assault, or driving under the influence, or whatever the crime may be. Punish one, not the other.

[David Floyd]

If you listen to David, it's because it's "None of the Guv'ments Damn buisness!"

To a degree, that's always my position.
But more to the point, those statistics are meaningless. I'm not going to get in a car while doing drugs, so why should I be punished for the actions of others. But if I *DO* drive under the influence, I should be prosecuted, because that's where the real harm is, not the act of smoking weed, or doing coke, or whatever.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by David Floyd

If prostitutes are kept against their will, that's kidnapping - but kidnapping and prostitution are not related. Kidnapping victimizes people, but the act of paying for sex hurts no one.

Have you ever heard of economic enslavement?

That happens allthe time in a free market and happens to ,ost if not all prostitues. That is that they have no choice but to be a prostitute because the owe the pimps money, have drug habits, and/or have no skills and no way of getting any.

Economic enslavement is the reason why your plan is evil.

Jon Miller

[Sava]

These aren't in any particular order of importance...

#1 Legalize and tax drugs (marijuana and shrooms at the very least)

#2 Legalize, tax, and regulate prostitution

#3 Prevent elected politicians from fundraising for others

#4 Make health care and education non-profit industries and entities

#5 Put profit caps on energy and telecom industries

#6 Enforce current regulations in other corporate sectors, possibly de-regulate areas

#7 Separate religion and government in every way possible

#8 Increase federal funding to education and raise teacher salaries

#9 Offer government backed contracts for the construction of high speed mag lev rails (including but not limited to federal funds and tax breaks)

#10 Offer government backed contracts and other incentives for the overhaul of the oil infrastructure to accomodate hydrogen fuel cell technology.

#11 Pass and enforce gun licensing programs, fund studies to track the sale of illegal weapons and propose new solutions to curb the sale of illegal arms

#12 After America is cleaned up, offer the same government based contracts and incentives to build farming, transportation, energy, and telecom infrastructures of third world countries...

[Sava]

Originally posted by dudemanjack


Here's some statistics about crimes where people were under the influence of drugs:

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html#table1

24.5 and 29.0 % of state and federal violent crimes were committed by people who were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 39% of motor vehicle thefts were by people on drugs as well. So tell me why we should legalize drugs?

Drugs OR alcohol... I seriously would like to see some credible stats showing that people commit crimes under the influence of marijuana. As of yet, eating tons of junk food and watching crude comedies isn't illegal. Get off your high horse.

Plus, the prohibition causes much more crime than people on drugs or alcohol combined. Don't even think about using crime stats for your argument because your strawman will get burnt to the ground.

[Lonestar]

Begone, you commie.

[David Floyd]

That happens allthe time in a free market and happens to ,ost if not all prostitues. That is that they have no choice but to be a prostitute because the owe the pimps money, have drug habits, and/or have no skills and no way of getting any.

That sounds very much like their own fault. Don't expect me to bail you out if you're "economically enslaved" - you should have been more responsible.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Drugs are also one of the big drivers of crime in the United States. Possibly the Biggest driver of criminal activity. Cracking down on drugs, at the source (which would be the people who use the drugs, not the growers) would help society alot.

I think elimination of harmful drugs is a good thing, (although I do not believe the risks of some drugs such as alcohol outweigh the pleasure it gives to society).


The thing you need to be careful about when eliminating sources of hard drugs is that the price will rise, the addiction will remain, and you will get more crime to pay for the addiction.

A wholistic approach is required - remove the demand aswell as the supply.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Sava


Drugs OR alcohol... I seriously would like to see some credible stats showing that people commit crimes under the influence of marijuana. As of yet, eating tons of junk food and watching crude comedies isn't illegal. Get off your high horse.

Why should I? *I* have never used drugs or alchohol, and I've never been in any sort of legal/traffic incident/ And I'm in the demographic mostly likely to have that sort of problem.

Plus, the prohibition causes much more crime than people on drugs or alcohol combined. Don't even think about using crime stats for your argument because your strawman will get burnt to the ground.

Do *you* have proof of that, or are you just running off The Untouchables?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


I think elimination of harmful drugs is a good thing, (although I do not believe the risks of some drugs such as alcohol outweigh the pleasure it gives to society).


The thing you need to be careful about when eliminating sources of hard drugs is that the price will rise, the addiction will remain, and you will get more crime to pay for the addiction.

A wholistic approach is required - remove the demand aswell as the supply.

<----which would be why I said "The people who use drugs..."

[David Floyd]

Do *you* have proof of that, or are you just running off The Untouchables?

Simple logic. If you ban something, and people still do it, they're committing crimes. That makes the crime rate increase, and fills up jails with ordinary people while leaving real criminals on the streets.

But prohibition also raises the cost - if drugs were legalized (and thus cheaper, due to free market competition), the number of people stealing in order to buy drugs would probably go down. Also, incidentally, drugs would probably be safer, too - you wouldn't see cocaine laced with strychnine, or things like that, more than likely.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Lonestar



<----which would be why I said "The people who use drugs..."

I was agreeing with you.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by David Floyd


That sounds very much like their own fault. Don't expect me to bail you out if you're "economically enslaved" - you should have been more responsible.

People are often born that way....

Kids born to rich families hardly ever have that happen to them, those born to poor families in the inner cities almost always have that happen to them.

Jon Miller

[David Floyd]

Kids born to rich families hardly ever have that happen to them, those born to poor families in the inner cities almost always have that happen to them.

The fact that someone was born poor doesn't mean they have to turn to drugs. They may do it, but that sounds more like a parenting and personal problem, than my problem.