Most evil American political leader ever?

[Dis]

no one voted for Grant? he was not a nice man

[David Floyd]

Sorry, to disappoint you Davey, but I'm pretty sure I know a tad bit more about history as you, considering my minor in it at DePaul University.

That's nice. History is my MAJOR at University of Texas (or at least will be when I get around to fixing my major, I've taken the courses for it to be my major).

I've been studying 20th Century history since I was 10 years old because so many of the great world events have affected me and my family.

Since you were 10? Congratulations. Doesn't mean you know anything about it, especially the discussion at hand.
Seriously, you probably know more about some things, and I probably know more about some things. I just happen to think that this is one of those things I know more about, and you're certainly doing nothing to prove me wrong.

Leave things like history and political science to people committed to education.

yeah and most of these people are homeless and live in halfway houses... what a great life

A life that is absolutely not my responsibility, actually.

Of course. Let's rely on the charitable nature of the rich, they've proven to be a nice and moral bunch

Of course, because there have NEVER been rich philanthropists
In reality, most of the super-rich DO donate money to charity, more money than either of us will probably earn in our lifetimes.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Sava
to quote from one of my fave movies... you know two things, jack and sh!t... and jack left town...

Steal my location field, will you?

I'd much rather have my money taken away by the government then some corporate bastard.

I agree, but ideally I'd rather not have my money taken away by either of them. I certainly don't need the government to arbitrate on which charities are worthy and unworthy...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Dissident
no one voted for Grant? he was not a nice man

As a general he may have been an *******, but I was under the impression that he was an incompetent (not wicked) president. Kinda like Harding.

[David Floyd]

I wouldn't say Harding was one of the MOST incompetent ones, he was about average in terms of Presidential incompetence.

[loinburger]

His regime was plagued by scandals, and he honestly didn't seem to know a thing about them. At least Reagan could be called "devious but good at it." Harding was more of a "simpleton in a den of thieves."

[Boris Godunov]

Harding wasn't just incompetent, though, he was remarkably corrupt, even for a U.S. President.

[David Floyd]

That's more naivete than incompetence, in my opinion.

*shrug* Not like he's one of my favorites anyway

[David Floyd]

Most of the corruption was in his cabinet - he might have known some, but I doubt he was any more corrupt than normal for a president.

[Dis]

How can you people be knocking social security?

What the hell?

Some people are genetically predispositioned to be well disciplined. Others are not. Should we punish those who don't have the genetic traits that allow them to be disciplined?

I think not. Believe it or not, not everybody thinks like Apolytoners. We happen to be a bunch of people who are very well disciplined. We would not be able to do well at civ games if we weren't. We do not represent the general population.

[Dis]

and I do think that Grants actions as a general apply to this thread. As he is an evil man for what he has done. He didn't suddenly become good when he came into office. The thread title reads: most evil american leader? no which american leader preformed the most evil actions while in office.

But he's a general. We expect generals to be evil.

I would have voted for him, but I figured George W. needed another vote . Sure he hasn't started any wars. But he appointed John Ashcroft. Bad enough.

[David Floyd]

Some people are genetically predispositioned to be well disciplined. Others are not. Should we punish those who don't have the genetic traits that allow them to be disciplined?

How is not having an entitlement program punishing someone? Since when is it my responsibility for someone else's genetics?
And let's try this argument. Some people just like sex and it's not their fault, so should there be a social security program for people with STDs? Come on now.

But the original purpose of Social Security was to take your money, set it aside, and give it back to you when you are old. As bad as this is - basically the government saying it knows whats good for you better than you do - social security today has been perverted to mean that your money is taken, put into general spending funds (because God forbid something show a profit), spent, and then you are paid with someone else's money when you are old.

[David Floyd]

But he's a general. We expect generals to be evil.

But he wasn't as bad as Sherman or LeMay, by any means.

And I agree about Ashcroft - singularly the worst thing Bush has done, even worse than military spending, is the appointment of this guy. The Senate screwed up here bigtime as well. He wasn't re-elected for a reason.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Actually, if the 1924 National Origins Act applied to refugees as well as immigrants, this is one area where he acted according to the law. "

As I understood it he might have been able to get them granted Safe Haven, though there may have been a political fight about it. I think the failure to provide refuge for the Holocaust is one of the greatest moral failings in our nation's history, and FDR in my opinion is the one who is chiefly responsible for it.

" FDR was the commander in chief of the Americans during most of WW2."

Right, but for most of the decisions made by the top executives it was Churchill leading the way- FDR mainly went along with what he said. FDR doesn't really deserve credit for winnning WWII.

"And any knock against FDR is a knock against all of the American Armed Forces that served in WW2. "

So is any knock against George W. Bush a knock against all our brave soldiers fighting the war on
terrorism? Dumbass.

Sava, the fact is you are an idiot. I have a great deal of respect for most leftists on this forum, but not you. You never make any intelligent points, all you do is post inflammatory remarks against anyone who disagrees with you. Your posts about Arabs and Moslems show you to be a racist and a religious bigot.

"I guess the difference between me and people like you, Davey boy, is that I care about the people who can't effectively plan for retirement."

Just because you care for someone doesn't mean they are entitled to be covered for their bad decisions.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"Actually, if the 1924 National Origins Act applied to refugees as well as immigrants, this is one area where he acted according to the law. "

As I understood it he might have been able to get them granted Safe Haven, though there may have been a political fight about it. I think the failure to provide refuge for the Holocaust is one of the greatest moral failings in our nation's history, and FDR in my opinion is the one who is chiefly responsible for it.

" FDR was the commander in chief of the Americans during most of WW2."

Right, but for most of the decisions made by the top executives it was Churchill leading the way- FDR mainly went along with what he said. FDR doesn't really deserve credit for winnning WWII.

"And any knock against FDR is a knock against all of the American Armed Forces that served in WW2. "

So is any knock against George W. Bush a knock against all our brave soldiers fighting the war on
terrorism? Dumbass.

Sava, the fact is you are an idiot. I have a great deal of respect for most leftists on this forum, but not you. You never make any intelligent points, all you do is post inflammatory remarks against anyone who disagrees with you. Your posts about Arabs and Moslems show you to be a racist and a religious bigot.

"I guess the difference between me and people like you, Davey boy, is that I care about the people who can't effectively plan for retirement."

Just because you care for someone doesn't mean they are entitled to be covered for their bad decisions.

Ouch, did you practice saying this in the mirror? ... right, and I'm a racist because I don't like Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. terrorists)...

You're comparing the war on terror vs WW2, and I'm the dumbass?

And sure I never make intellegent points. That's the whole point. It's more fun to insult people. I already know that they are wrong, so why waste energy trying to change their minds when I won't?

FDR didn't win WW2 by himself, duh, I never said he did. He just was president of the country that contributed most to the defeat of Nazi Germany in Western Europe. That statement speaks for itself.

Hey Shi... be careful, you're turning into me!