Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should I circumcize my son?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Eroberer
    About the pain, I'm almost positive the babies just don't feel it.
    This Doctor on the American Council of Science and Health disagrees:


    To quote some excerpts:
    During the operation, the infant's blood oxygen drops. His heart rate and cortisol level (a measure of stress) shoot up. His crying becomes high-pitched, such that one would observe only when a baby is in intense pain. Then he may completely dissociate (a response similar to severe posttraumatic stress disorder) and become quiet—giving up because no one has rescued him. Immediate complications of the operation can include hemorrhage (sometimes fatal or requiring a blood transfusion); minor infections; deadly infections such as meningitis, gangrene, and septicemia (blood poisoning); partial or complete amputation of the penis; urinary retention leading to renal failure; and rupture of the bladder or stomach.

    The vast majority of neonatal circumcisions are performed without anesthesia. Using local anesthesia during the operation has been disappointing. Research has shown that local anesthesia does not prevent, but merely moderates, the cortisol elevation. Furthermore, local anesthesia does not affect postoperative pain, such as that due to the newborn's urinating and defecating into the open penile wound. In any case, the external application or injection of any local anesthetic involves risk to the patient.

    After the operation the baby, exhausted and apprehensive, is returned to his mother. He has difficulty quieting down after disturbances. The time he spends in dreamless (non-REM) sleep is increased. He is less available for interaction with his mother. This hinders the establishment of breast-feeding and maternal bonding and thus leads to weight loss and jaundice. Once he has been brought home, the baby's risk of certain local skin problems—penile infections, inflammation of the penile meatus (passage), and narrowing of the meatus, for example—is higher than that of noncircumcised infants. Half the time, his glans will not be fully exposed and this will prompt further surgery.

    The operation's psychological impact on newborns is largely unknown, but performing circumcision without an anesthetic has enabled studying the parameters of extreme pain in experiments that researchers would have been prohibited from performing on lab animals. Researchers who have studied such parameters in infants have concluded that newborns are more susceptible to painful stimuli than are older infants.

    Recent research suggests that the operation may have long-lasting effects on the patient's perception of and sensitivity to painful stimuli. The main structures for memory are functional in newborns, and remembrance of pain may figure in pain perception later. For days after the surgery, the circumcised boy will experience a greater change in heart rate when his blood is drawn than will a noncircumcised boy. And regardless of whether an anesthetic was used during circumcision, he will cry louder and longer during inoculations months later.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SuperSneak
      The per capita infection rate of heteros to homosexuals is what is important, not the "total" number infected.
      Sneak, the topic has nothing to do with sexuality, grow the hell up.

      It has to do with circumcision, you don't even know what sexuality your son is right now anyway.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SuperSneak
        Hmmmm....you must be the exception and not the rule, otherwise, all your preaching about penile health, condoms, etc, would be universally accepted and the evidence of a massive plague among gay men wouldn't be there to confront us...out of all the sexual subgroups, I certainly wouldn't take the advice of a representative of a community that is dying in droves due to irresponsible prevention of sexual diseases.
        Boris, do you have AIDS? What?! You mean it's possible for a gay man not to have AIDS? Is it even possible for a straight man to have it? Inconceivable! (Princess Bride!)
        If playground rules don't apply, this is anarchy! -Kelso

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SuperSneak
          The per capita infection rate of heteros to homosexuals is what is important, not the "total" number infected.
          And you should know that infection rates today have as much to do with race and social status as they do sexual orientation, if not much more. Middle-class, white gay men are one of the few groups where HIV transmission has steadily declined.
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

          Comment


          • Hey...you want to twist facts to support your cause, fine. I have the right to do the same.

            Anyone here who wants to take a civilian gay man's opinion about what is best for my son's penis and health over a doctor's is free to do so.
            I will not and have the brass to admit it and explain why. If you don't like that, don't worry about me wringing tears out of my pillow at night.

            Tandee--I don't recall saying Boris had AIDs or straight men didn't, just that his opinion was of less value to me because of his de facto inclusion in a group that is tragically promiscuous.

            And yes, Boris, I know plenty about your community. When you hang out with straight married couples AND gay men, be they "monogamous" or committed, the level of sexual dalliance from one group to the other is quite obvious.
            You are the deluded one if you deny that. Or maybe my city is just full of abnormally promiscuous gay men with multiple partners?
            Life and death is a grave matter;
            all things pass quickly away.
            Each of you must be completely alert;
            never neglectful, never indulgent.

            Comment


            • Only a moron dismisses mountains of medical evidence because the person who brought it to their attention was not heterosexual.

              And no offense, but you took the advice of an OB/GYN about what to do to your BOY's PENIS after he was BORN? What the hell? Don't you know what an OB/GYN *IS*?

              That's like going to a car salesman and asking him what kind of fuel to use to go to the moon!
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DanS
                Don't know from what culture your husband's family is from, but in some muslim cultures the mother is expected to have more influence over the females while the father is expected to have more influence over the males.
                Coincidentally, when we were last with any members of his family, they were talking about how if we had a girl, she would be "Daddy's baby" and if we had a boy, he would be "Mommy's boy." Not that I agree, I just don't think they would see it that way.

                They might see this as meddling or you acting outside your sphere unnecessarily.
                And I might view their interference in the same light. I hate to use Seinfeld's Guide to Relationships, but I have the upper hand!

                Anyway, not all things that are bound up in religion are strictly religious. A lot of what supports religion is tradition, ceremony, family and way of life, rather. I find it helpful to distinguish among all of these.
                I definitely think it does have more to do with tradition for my husband. His religion didn't stop him from drinking or sleeping with girls before he was married, I don't see why it would make him circumcize his son. I just need to help him sort through his religious/atheistic feelings and elminate his illogical throwbacks. I actually even talked to him about pork last night, and he says he just doesn't like (yes, he's tried it), but I don't believe him, and I told him he still has to try pork chops, and he said he would.
                Last edited by tandeetaylor; August 8, 2002, 17:37.
                If playground rules don't apply, this is anarchy! -Kelso

                Comment


                • I know this sounds bad, but my when husband and I can't agree, I get my way. I'd prefer it the other way. I'm sure that I can convince him in three months, considering the progress I already made in one night.


                  All I'd say is don't get too cocky. You wouldn't want to be a single mother raising that kid, would you?
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Eroberer
                    About the pain, I'm almost positive the babies just don't feel it.
                    I cannot for the life of me imagine why not.

                    I imagine if it were so bad, then there would be some baby anesthesia out on the market (just a guess).
                    Babies can't complain, they can only cry. And they do that anyway right? I think that there is a significant chance that it is just impossible to safely "put a baby under." I mean, how many "Just for Baby" aspirins do you remember being on the market? Even the children medicine says you shouldn't give it to children under age 2.
                    If playground rules don't apply, this is anarchy! -Kelso

                    Comment


                    • Super unleaded.
                      Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                      We've got both kinds

                      Comment


                      • Asher, what real experience do you have in anything? Do you have children? Have you had to make any real decisions about anything, ever? Do you pay rent, pay a mortgage, have a car payment, pay your tuition, etc.?
                        Give me one good reason to give credence to anything you say at all?
                        I listen to my peers, not hyperactive teens with too much free time on their hands.
                        I'd love to be there the day that the realities of life come crashing down on your head.
                        In the meantime, enjoy your false belief that you have all the answers, because it will be a short lived one once you are on your own.
                        Life and death is a grave matter;
                        all things pass quickly away.
                        Each of you must be completely alert;
                        never neglectful, never indulgent.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SuperSneak Tandee--I don't recall saying Boris had AIDs or straight men didn't, just that his opinion was of less value to me because of his de facto inclusion in a group that is tragically promiscuous.
                          Even if that is true, it doesn't mean that HE is, and that's what I was saying.

                          Or maybe my city is just full of abnormally promiscuous gay men with multiple partners?
                          I think unattached straight men can be pretty promiscuous.
                          If playground rules don't apply, this is anarchy! -Kelso

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SuperSneak
                            Asher, what real experience do you have in anything?
                            What does this have to do with medical fact?! Whether I have children or not does not change the world's tilt, Sneak!

                            You need to stop using ad hominems whenever you want to argue with me. Whether I pay rent or have kids doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the medical facts behind circumcision. Get real.

                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SuperSneak

                              And using condoms is only a preventative, not a cure, as I can attest that condoms often break.
                              You know, I have been using good old "rubber johnnies" for a long time now. I've never broken one.

                              Perhaps it's luck. Personally I think it's because of my special secret. It's called "foreplay".
                              The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

                              Comment


                              • The bottom line to all of this is that this is a grown up decision. I find it abhorrent that you would come to a gaming site and ask the opinions of a bunch of people with no real life experience, especially in relation to the specific topic.
                                I did my research 13 months ago and engaged medical professionals in my decision.
                                Perhaps you might consider that as an option?
                                I certainly wouldn't defer to any opinions here...
                                Life and death is a grave matter;
                                all things pass quickly away.
                                Each of you must be completely alert;
                                never neglectful, never indulgent.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X