Should I send my boys to an all boy school?

[SuperSneak]

17 hours is "all weekend" in my book.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have a short weekend then .

A guy has to work sometime... I did last night.

[SuperSneak]

Surely Burger King has Internet access in some form?

[drake]

If you can tell which kids will succeed by where they go to school, you're a better man than I sneak.

Some might prefer getting places in life by the good old boy system, but many prefer the old fashioned hard work thing.

Teaching kids at such a young age that they are inherently better than other kids is not the best life lesson if you ask me, but to each thier own.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SuperSneak
Well, this will probably let the air out of your balloon, but old Sneaky went to an all boys Catholic school and loved it.

And look how well it turned out for Sneak.

Contrary to Asher's paranoid generalizations, being in a traditionally paternal environment helped to teach those of us with half a brain some of the more classic concepts of being gentlemen.

Welcome to the 21st century, Sneak, and gender equality. Some of us are polite to everyone (in person ), not just a single sex.

Plus, an environment without as much peer pressure greatly aided in teaching young men to be more open and honest about their feelings in class and on retreats, as there was no worry about feeling stupid in front of girls.

Sneak, you're honestly trying to tell me that when it's ALL boys that teaches people to be more "open and honest about their feelings"? That's a crock.

Unless for some reason both you and horsie (and obviously blackice) have issues with females it shouldn't be a problem. The vast majority of people find girls to be far easier to talk to and be open and honest about their feelings with.

If for some reason you need to put on a show for girls to get their attention (which is probably the case for you two), I can see why you felt relieved from the stress of not having to put up an act at school just so you can get laid.

Some of us don't worry about it, and just be ourselves and see where that takes us.

So which is the better environment for a child to go to school in? One which segregates the sexes like races were once, or one that promotes equality? One which exposes children to only working with one sex, or one which exposes children to working with both sexes?

It seems to me the only argument anyone that's put forth in favor of a unisex school is that it's less stress. And the only reason it'd add stress is if you've got some kind of pre-existing issues.

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by drake
Some might prefer getting places in life by the good old boy system, but many prefer the old fashioned hard work thing.

Teaching kids at such a young age that they are inherently better than other kids is not the best life lesson if you ask me, but to each thier own.

Now that is a revolutionary outlook.
W...o.r.k? What other bolshy notions will you be coming up with next, drake my old mate? Ending capital punishment in schools? Giving the vote to the poor and to the peasants?
Surely not removing the institution of slavery on everyone who hasn't got a knighthood!!



It is not a substitute for hard work, but a force multiplier - it opens doors and opportunities that you still have to take advantage of yourself. The old school tie cannot do everything. (To start off with, it is just an elderly clothing accessory... )
Nor is it teaching some children that they are inherently better than others (even though some are ), merely that they have been given a great opportunity and a terrific starting position, but it is up to them to work it from there, and to earn it, in the Private Ryan sense.

[SuperSneak]

Asher, having attended both systems, I believe I speak from a position of experience unlike yourself. When you add up all the plusses and minuses, in the end, a single sex high school was a positive for me.

Sneak, you're honestly trying to tell me that when it's ALL boys that teaches people to be more "open and honest about their feelings"? That's a crock

What you are failing to realize is that most teenage boys would rather not talk about their socialization issues (girls, home, peers, sports, class, et. al) in front of girls due to perceived weakness. Of course, we both know that girls will generally find this to be attractive, but your average teenage boy doesn't have that figured out yet.

Unless for some reason both you and horsie (and obviously blackice) have issues with females it shouldn't be a problem. The vast majority of people find girls to be far easier to talk to and be open and honest about their feelings with.

I guessed you missed the part about my intense studies on gender equality and women's issues? I have tons of credit hours in both topics and can probably run circles around you on that topic. Just because you're bi doesn't give you some divine birthright to claim superior knowledge of gender issues. I have a good deal more life experience than you do, namely, a very diverse upbringing that exposed me directly to many different cultures, races and genders. I am not saying that an all boy's school is the end all be all for everyone, merely that it has pros and cons for an individual. The cons you site (i.e. an inability to connect with women) are fallacious...it's just not the case. Nor is there an atmosphere of "we are better than women". More accurately, there is an atmosphere of "we can concentrate on specific areas better this way".

If for some reason you need to put on a show for girls to get their attention (which is probably the case for you two), I can see why you felt relieved from the stress of not having to put up an act at school just so you can get laid.

That's just ridiculous. To some extent you have to put on a show...it's called courtship, brainiac. I have no idea what this is in response to in the first place...are you trying to tell me that there is equal attention to women placed in both all boy's and co-ed schools? If you are, you are sadly mistaken. Our focus was academics, not fashion and dating. Your lack of focus in academics is glaringly obvious. While I learned to debate and support a thesis, you obviously were checking out asses and perusing the latest Old Navy catalogue.

Some of us don't worry about it, and just be ourselves and see where that takes us.

Sounds a bit like living life as a weather vane. Hope you get on track some day.

So which is the better environment for a child to go to school in? One which segregates the sexes like races were once, or one that promotes equality? One which exposes children to only working with one sex, or one which exposes children to working with both sexes?

There was no "segregation" in its classic sense. There was an acknowledgement that some boys would benefit from the environment. There was an acknowledgement that some parents desired a more traditional and stern atmosphere for their sons, one that included corporal punishment and toughness that most "gender equalitists" would cringe at. There was an acknowledgement that in order for a boy to become a man---yes, in the classic John Wayne sense---he had to have manly concerns and examples that are best presented in a male environment. Does that mean I don't respect women? No. Does that mean that I do not have an equal partnership in my marriage? No. Does that mean that I think women are different? YES! Emphatically. Women are different. Men are different. Gays, lesbians and bis are different, for a myriad of reasons, both social and biological. I shudder to think of a society that deals with these differences by trying to make everyone the same, because when we do that, we fail to embrace those differences.

It seems to me the only argument anyone that's put forth in favor of a unisex school is that it's less stress. And the only reason it'd add stress is if you've got some kind of pre-existing issues.

Not less stress, less distraction. My education was focused on a Christian, Catholic ideal. The motto of my school was "Age Quod Agis" which means "Men for others". I was being taught that to be a man meant to follow in Christ's path and to serve others in the male Catholic tradition.
I personally do not follow the Catholic faith anymore, chiefly due to its limited and backward relation to women. Surprise, surprise! But I did not sense that attitude in its theology or its educational system, more in its dogma.
In the process of going to this horribly archaic school, I managed to attend one of the most esteemed college prep instititutions in this country, one that has a remarkable academic record of achievement, as well as a very strong committment to the social causes that beset the world, not to mention an incredible and consistent placement of its students in the finest colleges and universities.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SuperSneak
Asher, having attended both systems, I believe I speak from a position of experience unlike yourself. When you add up all the plusses and minuses, in the end, a single sex high school was a positive for me.

You can't judge this based on a single person's experience. You'd be amazed how many gay porns take place in all boys schools, perhaps I should take that and apply it to everyone attending school like you did?

What you are failing to realize is that most teenage boys would rather not talk about their socialization issues (girls, home, peers, sports, class, et. al) in front of girls due to perceived weakness. Of course, we both know that girls will generally find this to be attractive, but your average teenage boy doesn't have that figured out yet.

So you would actually suggest that boys will talk to boys about these problems because there's no girls around? You should read some of the books by William Pollack, he's a PhD in child psychology specializing in boys and has written a few books on the matter, and he'd strongly disagree with you.

I guessed you missed the part about my intense studies on gender equality and women's issues? I have tons of credit hours in both topics and can probably run circles around you on that topic. Just because you're bi doesn't give you some divine birthright to claim superior knowledge of gender issues. I have a good deal more life experience than you do, namely, a very diverse upbringing that exposed me directly to many different cultures, races and genders. I am not saying that an all boy's school is the end all be all for everyone, merely that it has pros and cons for an individual.

How does life experience or study on the issue change the fact that by separating boys and girls you're sending a message to the children that they are not equal? Surely in all of your indepth studies on the issue you wouldn't overlook something so patently obvious?

The cons you site (i.e. an inability to connect with women) are fallacious...it's just not the case.

Because for YOU it "didn't have any effect"? Must you be so naive to generalize everyone off of your shining success?

That's just ridiculous. To some extent you have to put on a show...it's called courtship, brainiac.

Not everybody has to resort to courtship. I've never, ever, done something like that because I personally find it degrading. I've had many people try it with me though.

I have no idea what this is in response to in the first place...are you trying to tell me that there is equal attention to women placed in both all boy's and co-ed schools? If you are, you are sadly mistaken. Our focus was academics, not fashion and dating. Your lack of focus in academics is glaringly obvious. While I learned to debate and support a thesis, you obviously were checking out asses and perusing the latest Old Navy catalogue.

What the hell are you talking about?
Aren't you the car salesman?
Are you switching roles on me to try to make a point?

There was no "segregation" in its classic sense.

Um. Hello?
You're going to an all boys school and you're telling me there's no segregation?

Does that mean I don't respect women? No. Does that mean that I do not have an equal partnership in my marriage? No. Does that mean that I think women are different? YES! Emphatically. Women are different. Men are different. Gays, lesbians and bis are different, for a myriad of reasons, both social and biological. I shudder to think of a society that deals with these differences by trying to make everyone the same, because when we do that, we fail to embrace those differences.

So perhaps we should take it a step further and put all of the ethnic minorities in their own school as well, since they're different. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Kids wouldn't be affected negatively at all by segregating them into different groups by sex and ethnicity during school, right?

Not less stress, less distraction.

Hey, that's life for you. Women are in the workforce, they'll distract you. Women will be in school, they'll distract you to. Learn to deal with it. The best way to learn is through experience...

[Apocalypse]

I'm tired of Catholicism being signled out when talking about women. People act like it represses them. Just the opposite. The Catholic versions of the bible have much more about women than Protestant ones. And this is about women doing important stuff.

[SuperSneak]

Hmmmm....I'd say that my school produced a number of strong marriages and solid family groups, headed by men with strong wives who contribute generously in time and money to their surrounding community.

Where's the fault in that?

[blackice]

have issues with females it shouldn't be a problem.

Asher care to point out where I said that and or prove I have issues with Females, misandry yes females no. I have asked that 10 times so far that you prove your lie. You have yet to respond you just continue to spread this lie. Asher grow up immature comments and lies do not look good on you. Do you even know what misandry is? It would appear anyone that speaks up against it to you is a female hater. That Asher simply tells everything about you.

Other people have commented about this to you also, either back what you say or stop lying. Maybe you should put some time into the topic before you "act" like to an expert...

On to topic.

It is not a question of "segregation" it is a question of how they learn and how the sexes learn differently.
Somethings simply can not be lumped together. While it's nice to talk about equality. This is not an equality issue per se.

Thier is no question that since hard core feminist's started directing the schools agenda's 20 years ago boys have fallen behind. This simply can not be denied or dismissed. It is only now the studies about boys are being done.

Most in the field believe at this point in time it was a mistake as the sexes do not learn the same way.
So one formula or the other will not work for one or the other.

That brings us to if at this point in time public schools are not taking boys into account. Then why would to put a boy into that environment?

The rest SuperSneak put it far better than I could and I agree with him 100%.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I'm tired of Catholicism being signled out when talking about women. People act like it represses them. Just the opposite. The Catholic versions of the bible have much more about women than Protestant ones. And this is about women doing important stuff.

Hmmm, I'd have to disagree with you there. Of all the mainstream Christian groups the Catholics are the most oppressive to women. The only possible exception that I can think of are the Southern Baptists. Of course neither of these two groups can compare to the down right barbaric treatment women get in most muslim countries.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Hmmm, I'd have to disagree with you there. Of all the mainstream Christian groups the Catholics are the most oppressive to women. The only possible exception that I can think of are the Southern Baptists. Of course neither of these two groups can compare to the down right barbaric treatment women get in most muslim countries.

Care to back that up?

Listen, my local all girls catholic schools are incredibly feminist. I've never witnessed any sexism that was specific to Catholics (unless you want to count occupations).

[blackice]

So perhaps we should take it a step further and put all of the ethnic minorities in their own school as well, since they're different. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Kids wouldn't be affected negatively at all by segregating them into different groups by sex and ethnicity during school, right?

Off to the extremes again to prove a mute point. Asher the sexes learn differently. What you are saying is "so what make them" That is what is happening today and it obviously does not work. That is the bottom line do you understand that Asher?

It is not an equality issue per se, it is not a "segregation" per se. It is not a "religious" issue. It is not a "race" issue. It is doing what is in the best interest of both sexes. The kids being the bottom-line.

Until they put as much funding and effort into what makes "boys" learn we have a dysfunctional system right now that ignores the fundamental differences between the two sexes and learning. This it appears you are all for, again maybe do more reading on the subject.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Asher care to point out where I said that and or prove I have issues with Females, misandry yes females no. I have asked that 10 times so far that you prove your lie. You have yet to respond you just continue to spread this lie. Asher grow up immature comments and lies do not look good on you. Do you even know what misandry is? It would appear anyone that speaks up against it to you is a female hater. That Asher simply tells everything about you.

I never said anything about female hater. I said issues with females, and there's a difference. And it's obvious to anyone that you have issues with females, blackice, why else would you obsess over it constantly? 99% of your threads involve females, and not in a good way.

Other people have commented about this to you also, either back what you say or stop lying. Maybe you should put some time into the topic before you "act" like to an expert...

What the hell are you talking about?

Thier is no question that since hard core feminist's started directing the schools agenda's 20 years ago boys have fallen behind.