(Even) Turkey abolishes the death penalty!

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by paiktis22

in economic termsits begger thanthe US and has won against the US in WTO in more cases of global trade than i can count.

Of course, anything over 20 gets hard for some people......

[MarkG]

first of all, thank you for the great post

Originally posted by MrFun
I don't think George Washington was looking at China's Confucisiasm heritage as an inspiration in founding a new government for the United States.

perhaps not, but i believe the hard-working chinese immigrants have offered a lot in the "building" of the US

that was the point i was trying to say

Thirdly, you are right to an extent Mark. The United States has historically, and presently, been behind other nations in social progress

of course asher would say that if the US decides that the sun is square then it should continue to say it cause that's how the US likes it

But, Mark, this does not mean that the United States is without its strengths and positive aspects.

of course, i did not say anything opposite to that

[MrFun]

Mark -- I would never deny my nation's debt to the black slaves, the Chinese immigrants, the Irish immigrants, the German immigrants and ALL the other immigrant groups.


But when our nation was founded, its source was from the European Enlightenment.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
of course asher would say that if the US decides that the sun is square then it should continue to say it cause that's how the US likes it

You actually tried to compare something that's an obvious fact to an ethical question?

A little low on ammo in the argument, Mark?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Asher

Canada never wanted to be a powerhouse.
See KH's quote on "Stealth Nation Technology".

your inferiority complex to the americans certaintly suggests so.

but thats maybe cause the question your intelligence all the time

Canada has won many WTO cases against the US too. Naturally we are bigger and better.

and the damage you have done to the US is comparable im sure

And last time I checked, the GDP of the US/EU were comparable.

in 2000 our GDP (and d!ck) was bigger.

So in other words, the only difference is the EU is too new to have real enemies and also to new to have a real army.

only US is that damn to have enemies that passionate. it gets what it has done to them. we wont do the same, we dont need to. they are stuck back at imperialistic policies, that will be their downfall.

Remind me as to the point of your argument again...

you saying that the EU is nothing, I think.

[Asher]

Just so you know:

http://www.eurunion.org/profile/facts.htm

EU GDP 2000: $7,836.7 Billion US
US GDP 2000: $9,896.4 Billion US
EU GDP Growth 2000: 3.3%
US GDP Growth 2000: 5.0%
EU Unemployment: 8.2%
US Unemployment: 4.0%

[Bereta_Eder]

EU GDP 2000: $7,836.7 Billion US
US GDP 2000: $9,896.4 Billion US
EU GDP Growth 2000: 3.3%
US GDP Growth 2000: 5.0%
EU Unemployment: 8.2%
US Unemployment: 4.0%


bah, numbers is the easiest way to lie.

that still dont change the fact that the EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger. or that the health care in the EU is far better than the american one and that unemployed europeans dont stay in the streets.

which makes it a much better place to live.

check for 2001 stats too BTW.

[MarkG]

the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US
i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it!


some reports

Since 1976, over 700 people have been executed collectively by the 38 states that practice the death penalty. During that same period of time, 95 people have been freed from death row. That's approximately one person exonerated for every seven executed

http://www.aclu.org/death-penalty/toolkit_pt5.html

(yes, of course the aclu is biased )

A major study of capital punishment in the United States says more than two-thirds of convictions are so flawed that they are overturned on appeal.
...
The study of 4,578 appeals between 1973 and 1995 showed that most cases "are so seriously flawed that they have to be done over again".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/787416.stm

[Asher]

paiktis, you said 2000, not 2001. And it's unlikely the US didn't gain any GDP while EU gained $2B in a year anyway.

The EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger because of the different society.

Canada doesn't suffer the US' crime rate or terrorist danger either.

Terrorist dangers are related to how big and powerful your country is (everyone hates those on top), and crime rate is mostly based around the US' gun culture and economic disparity.

[Bereta_Eder]

btw that texan sever cant take the greek heat

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US

i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it!

Would you stop trying to use other country's ethics as the absolute "fact" in a situation that doesn't involve fact? It's ethics, Mark, stop pretending otherwise.

And your reports are extremely laughable.
That's why there's appeals, Mark. Those people freed are not executed, they win on appeals. When you lose a dozen straight appeals, the chances are very high that you are in fact guilty.

Can't you tell the difference between being freed on an appeal and being executed after many appeals proving your guilt?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MarkG
the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US
i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it!


some reports

Since 1976, over 700 people have been executed collectively by the 38 states that practice the death penalty. During that same period of time, 95 people have been freed from death row. That's approximately one person exonerated for every seven executed

http://www.aclu.org/death-penalty/toolkit_pt5.html

(yes, of course the aclu is biased )

Did you note that they were not executed? That they were freed?

So your 1 out of 7 is how many are sentenced to death and were innocent. Our system continues to work after sentencing and those that were innocent were exonerated. So your 1 out of 7 who are innocent and then sentenced and executed is obviously false.

Jon Miller

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Asher
paiktis, you said 2000, not 2001. And it's unlikely the US didn't gain any GDP while EU gained $2B in a year anyway.

it would be interesting to se the trend though dont forget that lower GDP goes for social welfare which is far better.

The EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger because of the different society.

do u think its a better society?

Canada doesn't suffer the US' crime rate or terrorist danger either.

decide your nationality finally asher

are you a stupid canadian or just another yankee?

Terrorist dangers are related to how big and powerful your country is (everyone hates those on top), and crime rate is mostly based around the US' gun culture and economic disparity.

terrorist dangers are related to how ****ed up youve been in your policies not by your power

gun culture and death penalties, we have a lot of changin' to do

[MarkG]

more bbc

What may in the end prove even more telling, however, is the result of a study by the Columbia School of Law in New York.

After examining every capital punishment case passing through the appeal courts between 1973 and 1995 its lawyers found that seven out of 10 death sentences were reversed because of serious error in the original trials.

To its authors the study suggests that America's capital punishment system is breaking down under the weight of its own mistakes. They point out that an appeals process burdened with the task of catching so much error is hugely expensive. Also it takes an inordinate amount of time.

Clearly nearly 70% of America's 3,700 death row inmates should never have been sent there. And although not more than about one in 10 will ever be executed, the wrongly sentenced are having to wait for anything from 10 to 18 years to be told of their fate. That's not unusual, and it is certainly cruel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovideo/programmes/correspondent/1168496.stm

[Jon Miller]

BTW MarkG

This was your original statement

Originally posted by MarkG
quote:

I bet the people wrongly sentenced and executed is lower than you think.

i remember seeing a report of being as high as 1 out of 7

Note that you were claiming that 1 out of 7 were wrongly sentenced and executed. Nothing you have presented even suggests this, and no research that I have ever seen presented suggests this.

Jon Miller