The Definitive Thread: US vs. Russia

[DanS]

"By going to war, the US would do what it did in WWII, turn our economy into a war production economy."

Nota bene: During WWII, only 1/3rd of our economy was devoted to fighting the war. Despite this, we helped bury the Germans and totally buried the Japanese in war material production--all at the same time.

"Such actions bring fame for strategist, for warriors such cowardnes bring only shame."

Give me strong logistics, dear Mars, and I will bring fame and victory to your banner!

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by nationalist


Paitkis, Texas is already Mexico. So is California.

Sorry Calif. is 43% white, 32% hispanic, around 14% oriental and 10% black and 1% other such as America native.
We have our share of rednecks out here too. The central valley is loaded with them.
I came from the central valley. A city call Modesto. In Calif. the liberals are in San Francisco and LA. The rest of Calif. is conservative. Even the elected democrat's reps in those area are conservative.

[joseph1944]

Paiktis22; have you ever served in the Greece military?

[DanS]

Paiktis22; have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Serb

Serbia done a lot of. But I never was in Serbia.
My Rodina is Russia and rodina is Siberia (I wonder if you will able to understand the difference)
And before Germans got to Moscow, they lost 600 000 of their soldiers and 60% of their tanks. Then Moscow's battle started and forces from my rodina- Siberia arrived and Germans lost 900 000+ soldiers during this battle(German figures, Russian data 1 100 000+) and was thrown back from Moscow. Only during first several months of this long war we've done much greater harm to nazi, then USA done during entire war.
Any questions?

Sorry about that, guess I should have looked a little more carefully.

I understand quite a bit about the war in Russia, if I had realized it was SIberia instead of SERbia, I never would have posted that crap.

[Verto]

The U.S. is a second rate nation? I wasn't aware we had people dying in the streets, unless you mean the homeless people who refuse aid? Crime rates may be high, but then again, so is the number of illegal immigrants.

Stop whining about how terrible America is - you don't live here, so where do you get these facts from? Biased websites which hate America.

As for the original topic, who would win in a war between Russia and the U.S., I would have to say that I don't know, and neither do any of you. There are too many variables.

However, I will go with the U.S., even though it is a second rate, crime ridden nation that pales in comparison to Socialist Europe.

At least I've got my guns...

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Verto
The U.S. is a second rate nation? I wasn't aware we had people dying in the streets, unless you mean the homeless people who refuse aid? Crime rates may be high, but then again, so is the number of illegal immigrants.

Stop whining about how terrible America is - you don't live here, so where do you get these facts from? Biased websites which hate America.

As for the original topic, who would win in a war between Russia and the U.S., I would have to say that I don't know, and neither do any of you. There are too many variables.

However, I will go with the U.S., even though it is a second rate, crime ridden nation that pales in comparison to Socialist Europe.

At least I've got my guns...

Its ok, they werent being completely serious. They were just trying to get back at this guy who had called European countries second rate - which isnt true either. I think we all know here that all the 'true' second rate countries are on those other 3 major continents. (that means excluding Austrailia and Antarctica - everybody knows those are pointless continents J/K)

[Serb]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Too bad it can't be you, since the days of the Russian power are over and you were humiliated in the Cold War.

Keep dreaming about this. No matter how hard you trying to bury us, we will survive. We had a lot of periods of temporal weakness in our history, but we always return. One of the British officers said once: “ You- Russkies, like no one else can solve terrible problems and survive after terrible disasters. To our luck, you also, like no one else can create such problems for yourselves.”

Too bad it can't be you, since the days of the Russian power are over and you were humiliated in the Cold War. Not that war is likely, as under Putin, Russia is fast becoming yet another US ***** state.

Silly boy. In fact everything is absolutely reverse. Yeltsin was your lackey. This shame is over now. If you didn’t noticed that political situation is changed under Putin and how our president often manipulate his counterparts to make decisions in Russian favor, you are blind.



P.S. Come and get us if you have balls.
-Serb.
(Formerly known as Dragon Slayer.)

[Serb]

ok. just suggesting that a defensive war by Russia would increase war weariness on America - thus ending the war earlier and therefore saving Russian Lives. But just by killing our civilians you would enrage them all the more, and prolong the war and the death of your people. I think it has been clearly illustrated that the US would enevitablely beat Russia in an all out war, but in a defensive war, you, like Veitnam, would have a chance of winning (winning as in not being conquered) - though when we were fighting Veitnam, it wasnt an all out war (no war economy like wwii, no rationing, people still went about their lives), mind you. If you would rather be conquered but 'teach' Americans this lesson of how you wage war (attrocious death rates for many reasons, I assume), thats fine - sick - but fine. This would only result in horrible death rates on both side, plus the American occupation of Russia. By fighting defensively you would save many, many more Russian lives and have a chance of winning. But, whatever.

Yeah, whatever.
Come and get us if you think that you will be luckier then everyone who attacked us in the past. Conquering Russia? Much better warriors then you are tried to conquer us many times, they failed. And you think that you, YOU who has a half of dozen military conflicts in their history, which even not wars by our standards, will be more lucky then f.e. Hitler?
If you will attack us, will teach you this lesson, a lesson of war vs. Russia. Prepare for fight till last man standing. Are you ready for bloodbath? We are, and proved it many times, during our history. You? I don’t know. You never showed that you are ready during your history.

Serb,
It appears that you are bitter that the US enjoys its strategic position of being seperated from the Eurasian-African landmass by two large oceans. It is this fact that has kept American CIVILIAN casualties in war so low when compared to other nations, like Russia. But what can be said of military casualties? The US has never practiced machine gunning our own troops if they retreated from battle (the axiam, 'run away to fight another day' comes to mind), and we have a practice of military strategy that minimizes our own troop casualties, unlike the old SU general strategy of throwing troops at an objective until it was taken (I am not saying Russia still practices this, or even has since WWII, merely pointing out the reasons for your high military death counts during WW2). That last tactic meant an almost guarunteed victory but at the obvious cost of lives, unlike American opperations that often risked defeat.

I already tried to explain differences in our cultures in one of my previous post. WW2 was Great Patriotic war for us, like war with Napoleon. (The war with USA will be the third Patriotic war if it happens of course). So read what typed below carefully.
We declare Patriotic war only in case when we are in deep sh*t. It means that our country in great danger. And it leaves only two choices for every Russian- to fight for your Rodina and to win, or to die for during this fight. In this situation human life cost nothing, only Rodina has value. Why? Because of our mentality formed through ages. We started our history as one country only after almost 300 years of occupation. Before Mongol’s invaded us, we were separated and fought against each other. We paid for our arrogance very high price, when Mongols conquered separated Russian tribes one by one, and brings 300 years of misery, suffering and darkness to our lands. Only when Russians united they defeated Mongols and stopped occupation, only when ALL Russians like one man, start fight for freedom of our country. We received this lesson very well, and since this time no one was able to conquer us, because in times of great danger we UNITE, we form unity with only one goal- to defeat aggressor and protect our country. And it doesn’t matter what price should we paid for our freedom, because Rodina is our highest value, but not lives of individuals.
In your mentality life of individual is highest value. If through its history USA went through only 10% of miseries that Russians went, your mentality was absolutely different. Amount of fingers on two hands is enough to count all American wars. If you show me a period of Russian history longer then 20 years when we don’t have military conflicts I’ll buy you a beer. We are very peaceful people, but we spent last thousand years in military conflicts and wars.

Back to WW2,
You didn’t participated a machine gun fire of your own troops during WW2, (and it wasn’t wide practice for Russians too, only during most critical moments), but you are not Russians. Your country wasn’t in danger, you was in absolutely different situation, your retirements didn’t determinate life and death of your population and you have absolutely different mentality. For you it’s ok to 'run away to fight another day', (not your invention, Europe used this principle too, and was conquered by Hitler pretty fast), for us if you do not fight when our country is in grave danger you are traitor. And traitor is worse then enemy. If we used this -, 'run away to fight another day' principle, then we were conquered by Hitler as all his previous victims.
This is a major difference between us, you prefer to- 'run away to fight another day', while we prefer- “ni ****u nazad, russkie ne zdayutsa” (fight for last man standing).
That’s why you (or anyone else) will never conquer us.

Russia had 11 million military casualties alone during WWII, and their only enemy was Germany - who suffered 3.5 million and they had multiple enemies on multiple fronts. Do you not think US troops fought bitter battles against Japan, or Germany for that matter? It was brutal amphbious assault, tropical island jungle warefare, rinse, and repeat for our Pacific war. Yet we did not lose even 0.5 million soldiers (though that is sad enough). Does this make us lesser fighters, because we had less military casualties?

No. You had much lesser military casualties, but harm done by you to enemy is MUCH lesser too. You didn’t fought against Hitler’s major forces. His major forces always were on Russian front. In 1941 Hitler had 75% of its army on Russian front. The nazi’s casualties on Russian front during 1941-1945 are more then 70% of their OVERALL casualties.
If you were fought against his 6 millions army (which he had on Russian front) only during a single year, your casualties were ten times greater then 300 000-400 000.

Here is a source, in case you want to deny my stats. But I'll assume you'll just make your typical claim that this site is a biased American conspiracy to make all other countries look inferior or something like that

You read my thoughts. I prefer books then Internet sources. Last book I read about WW2 said that German casualties was about 10 000 000, not 3,5. And Russian casualties were 11 mlns soldiers and 16 mlns civilians. And btw, Germany wasn’t our only enemy. Italy, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Finland, Japan etc. were too. You could check how many Italian and Hungarian divisions participated in Stalingrad battle f.e.

Your 7 millon civilian casualties are tragic, and mostly due to your position on the globe. Because the US was blessed with ours (our isolation), does this make you so bitter as to want to make us feel your pain? I am sorry for you if this be the case, that you wish harm onto civilians just because you want them to feel your pain

It is not my point. I said that for every Russian you will kill during your aggression, we would kill American. Forget that we will just seat and watch how you are killing us. We will strike back and bring the same misery to you. Eye for the eye. That’s what I mean.

[Serb]

Give me strong logistics, dear Mars, and I will bring fame and victory to your banner!

Yeah, keep begging Mars for help. The Russia is backyard of our God and He is always on our side, Mars is helpless in Russia. And even if he wasn’t, you forget that he is the Greek God and he wouldn't help to you anyway, because Greece is on our side. Right Paiktis?

[Serb]

Serb; have you ever served in the Russian military?
Paiktis22; have you ever served in the Greece military?

Why are you asking?
Are you trying to remind once again that you are US Navy veteran? Don’t worry, entire Apolyton already know about this.

[Serb]

Sorry about that, guess I should have looked a little more carefully.

Not a problem. You are not the first. Why everyone decides that I should be from Serbia, if my nickname is Serb? It’s just a abbreviate of my real name, a shorter version.

[Serb]

As for the original topic, who would win in a war between Russia and the U.S., I would have to say that I don't know, and neither do any of you.

Why no one?
I know. Sure we will win, as always.

[Waving Russian flag and singing Russian national hymn]

[DanS]

"And even if it wasn’t you forget that he is Greek God and he would help you anyway, because Greece is on our side."

You're thinking of Ares, not Mars.

Fact: Strong logistics would make or break any attack by the United States on Russia. This is because we are much stronger by the two most important measurements of fighting a modern war: economic potential and population.

Once Germany was stopped in its advances, it was necessarily at a disadvantage in economic potential and population. This was something that Germans could not change, no matter how good their foot soldiers were.

But this would not be the case with the United States at all. We could bungle the attack like the Germans did and still be at an advantage. Russia would be forced to look for allies, but in this scenario would be unable to take advantage of them.

The most important questions have not been discussed in this thread. How would you defend against an American attack on Russia? We have talked enough about capabilities, but what about strategy? What capabilities would you seek to counter first? What capabilities would you be the least worried about?

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Serb
Why are you asking?
Are you trying to remind once again that you are US Navy veteran? Don't worry, entire Apolyton already know about this.

Just a question, nothing more. Not every one here serves in the Military, even my son, age 33 did not served. That is OK with me, it was his decision.
You seem to know a lot about the Russian Military for a 25 year old. The Russian military was a big secret to many Russian people for many years.
I'll will give you this, the Kirov was one hell of a ship when she was built, but now they are wearing out just like ships in every Navy, and they have to be repaired or retired and be replace by newer ships.
Every ship that I help build is now retired. Every ship that I help repair/overhaul, only a few are still in service.
A new question, have you ever travel to the US? If not and you get the change someday you should. We have a lot of site to see.